A metal bar moves upwards near a long current carrying wire....

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the motion of a metal bar in the vicinity of a long current-carrying wire, specifically focusing on the magnetic field generated by the wire and its effects on the bar. Participants are exploring concepts related to electromotive force (EMF) and the behavior of charges within the conducting bar.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to calculate the magnetic field and the resulting EMF in the bar, expressing confusion about the application of formulas and the arithmetic involved. Other participants discuss the validity of the reasoning and suggest checking the arithmetic, while also questioning the uniformity of the magnetic field across the bar.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, with some providing guidance on relevant concepts such as Faraday's law. There is recognition of potential arithmetic errors, and a suggestion to explore the integral form of EMF calculation in different configurations of the bar and wire.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of the need for uniformity in the magnetic field for certain assumptions to hold, and the discussion hints at the complexity introduced when the bar's orientation and velocity are varied. Participants are encouraged to consider these factors in their reasoning.

jisbon
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Homework Statement
Bar moves upwards near a long current carrying wire. Current = 50A. What is the p.d between A and B?
Relevant Equations
##B =\frac{\mu I}{2\pi r}##
1568444073703.png

Not sure what to do here, but I do know that magnetic field is pointing in the paper according to the right hand grip from current carrying wire.
Hence I can calculate magnetic field to be:
##B = \mu_{0} I/2\pi r=(4\pi * 10^{-7})(50)/2\pi (0.004) = 3.94784*10^{-7}T##

Now from what I understand, there are free electrons inside the conducting bar. The positive charges move to left while negative charges move to right. So for a free electron to remain in bar,

##qE=bqv##
##E = vb##
I also know p.d = Efield in the bar * Length of bar
Which means## p.d = vBL##
However, subbing in B from above does not give me the answer.
Can anyone explain the concepts involved in this question and what I might have done wrong?
 
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I don't see any mistake in your reasoning (though it is a bit simplified, it still holds in this case because the velocity and the magnetic field do not vary along the length of the bar) so I expect the motional EMF to be $$\text{EMF}=\int_0^L(\vec{v}\times \vec{B})\cdot \vec{dl}=BvL$$. Perhaps you did a mistake in the arithmetic. What is the answer provided by the book?

There is definitely a mistake in the arithmetic for B, I get ##B=2.5\times 10^{-3}T##
 
Last edited:
Welp an arithmetic error :/
Is there a more detailed reasoning behind this concept though? Thanks
Delta2 said:
I don't see any mistake in your reasoning (though it is a bit simplified, it still holds in this case because the velocity and the magnetic field do not vary along the length of the bar) so I expect the motional EMF to be $$\text{EMF}=\int_0^L(\vec{v}\times \vec{B})\cdot \vec{dl}=BvL$$. Perhaps you did a mistake in the arithmetic. What is the answer provided by the book?

There is definitely a mistake in the arithmetic for B, I get ##B=2.5\times 10^{-3}T##
 
jisbon said:
Welp an arithmetic error :/
Is there a more detailed reasoning behind this concept though? Thanks
Read Wikipedia article on Faraday's law and especially the proof section
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday's_law_of_induction#Proof
Other than that your reasoning in the OP is valid only if the magnetic field is uniform across the wire loop we are integrating (in this case the magnetic field is not uniform but across the bar length is uniform, if the bar was oriented perpendicular to the wire with its velocity parallel to the wire the EMF would be different than BuL). In the most generic case that the magnetic field and/or velocity varies through out the points of the wire loop we have to calculate the integral

$$\int_{Loop}(\vec{v}\times \vec{B})\cdot d\vec{l}$$

Try to calculate this integral in the case of a bar that is perpendicular to the wire with its velocity parallel to the wire. You ll se that it is quite different than ##BuL## (if you do it correctly you ll have ##\ln{L+\alpha}## terms)/
 

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