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A problem with time dilation help?

  1. Jul 6, 2011 #1
    A problem with time dilation help!?

    when we move with light our time is slower and when we move against it then it's slower but what if we move at 99%C in a direction and a light ray is move with us and another light ray moves opposite from our direction simultaneously?
     
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  3. Jul 6, 2011 #2

    Doc Al

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    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    When you move with respect to some frame, then that frame will observe your clocks to run slow compared to their own. (You, of course, see your own clocks as running normally.) And the speed of light is the same with respect to anyone, regardless of their speed with respect to some frame.
     
  4. Jul 7, 2011 #3
    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    i know but if light comes from two opposite directions at the same time and we are moving at 99%c in one direction then what will happen huh?
     
  5. Jul 7, 2011 #4

    Doc Al

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    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    What do you mean 'what will happen'?

    Say you are moving to the right at 0.99c with respect to me. And there are two beams of light heading towards you.

    I see: You moving to the right at 0.99c and the light beams moving left and right at speed c.

    You see: The light moving towards you at speed c.
     
  6. Jul 7, 2011 #5
    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    well i mean that two beams of light not coming 2wards me but one going with me (from my side) and other from opposite side simultaneously
     
  7. Jul 7, 2011 #6

    Doc Al

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    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    You tell me. Using language similar to what I used in my last post, how would you describe it?
     
  8. Jul 16, 2011 #7
    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    ok now listen we are moving with 99% C -
    case 1- a light beam comes from opposite direction towards us
    case 2- a light beam goes with us
    i know u can answer these but what if these both things happen simultaneously huh?
     
  9. Jul 16, 2011 #8

    rede96

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    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    Hi Rishavutkarsh,

    Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you are thinking that time runs slower when we move relative to light. This is not really correct.

    For you, your time always passes at the same rate, despite how fast you are moving around the universe.

    What you will notice if you compare your passage of time to someone else’s passage of time that is moving relative to you, is that their time will be running slower than yours.


    So if you accept what I've written above, you can see that this question doesn't really make any sense, as you would only notice a difference in the rate of time if you compare your time to someone moving relative to you.

    Does that make sense?
     
  10. Jul 16, 2011 #9

    Doc Al

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    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    Is this what you mean:
    We are moving to the right at .99c with respect to earth (say)
    case 1 = there's a light beam coming towards us (moving to the left)
    case 2 = we shine a light in the same direction we are traveling (to the right)
    The presence or absence of light beams has nothing to do with time dilation, which says (for instance) that earth observers will measure our clocks to be running slow and that we will measure the earth clocks to be running slow.
     
  11. Jul 16, 2011 #10
    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    This same question you asked before...

    Perhaps you don't understand (or even know!) the definition of the one way speed of light, related to the definition of simultaneity? No doubt that that's where your problem is.

    - From our perspective, you are moving along with a light ray, only a little slower. And you are heading towards another light ray with a speed difference of almost 2c.

    - From your perspective, if you set up your own reference system, you will use (for example) light rays to set your clocks. And you will assume by definition that the light rays move at the same speed in both directions wrt you.

    See: section 1, "Definition of simultaneity",
    http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/

    As you set your clocks using that assumption, you will next also measure with your clocks that the speed of light is the same wrt you, both ways - you simply measure your own synchronisation!

    And from our perspective (not yours), thanks to the contraction of your rulers and the slowdown of your clocks, you will find that speed to be equal to c.

    Is there still a problem left?

    Harald
     
  12. Jul 18, 2011 #11
    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    seems like u don't get my question and i need to be clearer
    let a observer at earth be stationary ,let's consider time passing here is proper (tp) now that we are moving with 99% c and a light beam is going with us (note 10 secs tp= 1 sec our time) just an assumption
    so we see the light beam at c because of clock slowing and length contraction
    now in second case we move in other way of light shouldn't the length expand and time fasten to let us see the light at C (10secs tp = 1sec of our time)
    it means in one case length is expanding and other contacting and in one case time is faster than TP and in other slower can these two cases be applicable simultaneously huh?
    i wish you get my question and please correct if i am assuming some wrong
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
  13. Jul 18, 2011 #12

    Ryan_m_b

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    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    To you the clock would run at normal speed and there would be no contraction. The observer on Earth would see your clock running slow and contraction.

    I think your confusion here is that whether you are moving the same or opposite directions to light is irrelevant to time dilation. Time dilation occurs because of your speed relative to an observer at rest.
     
  14. Jul 18, 2011 #13
    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    well if light comes from another direction then we should see it at 199%C right? but we don't because length expands and time fastens relative to a observer on earth

    the reverse happens when light comes from our side we should see it at 1%c but we don't due to length contraction and time slowing relative to the same observer on earth

    these both can't take place simultaneously do u get my point now
    please tell if am assuming something wrong
     
  15. Jul 18, 2011 #14

    Ryan_m_b

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    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    Classically this would be true. For example if we are both passengers on a train and I walk past you I am moving 3mph relative to you. For an observer standing by the tracks the train is moving at 70mph and I am moving at 73mph. That's very simple to work out, we just add the two velocities together.

    However adding velocities in special relativity uses a different formula. http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/velocity.html" [Broken] might help you as it explains the formula and the reasoning behind it, essentially when adding together speeds it is never possible for something to exceed the speed of light.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2017
  16. Jul 18, 2011 #15
    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    thanks for the link but i think there is a reason why it happens it happens to conserve the speed but man time can't run slow and fast simultaneously right?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2017
  17. Jul 18, 2011 #16

    Ryan_m_b

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    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    I'm not sure what you mean. Can you give a clear example to what you are referring to? i.e Alice is moving at 99% C relative to Bob towards the right...
     
  18. Jul 18, 2011 #17

    Doc Al

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    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    Why do you think time must 'run slow and fast simultaneously'?

    Your time runs normally. When you observe something moving, you will measure their clocks to run slow. (They, of course, think their clocks are running normally and your clocks are slow.)
     
  19. Jul 18, 2011 #18
    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    sure, like candice is at 99% relative to alice on earth . if a light ray moves from the side of candice then both of them see it at C right? so that means that alice's clock is moving faster than candice . note - candice should see the light at 1%C but she isn't because of length contraction and clock slowing.

    now if a light ray comes from opposite direction of candice both of them see it at C but candice
    should see it at 199%c that means that in this way the clock of alice is slower than candice
    and length of candice expands rather than contraction to see the light at C .

    i hope i get these both points right feel free to correct them

    now my question is can these both cases be applicable simultaneously ? as time can run slow and fast for a single observer simultaneously

    i have a request that can we use the chat to clear my doubts?
     
  20. Jul 18, 2011 #19
    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    thanks but i already know this concept please see my next post and tell me that am wrong as i wanna be proved wrong but i wanna proved
     
  21. Jul 18, 2011 #20
    Re: A problem with time dilation help!?

    Yes it can! :) This is one of the central points of relativity: simultaneity. At relativistic speeds, time moves differently. Time is not constant across the universe. Suppose you had two identical clocks. You place one on a spaceship and the other at rest next to you on earth. If the spaceship is moving at 0.5c, you would observe its clock to run at 86.6% the speed of your clock.

    However, the astronauts would think that your clock is running slow. They would see that your clock was also running at 86.6% of its normal speed.

    Therefore, between two different frames of reference, you cannot agree on velocities, lengths, times, simultaneity, or momenta. The only thing you can agree on (and this is pivotal) is the speed of light. Both you (being on Earth) and the astronauts (traveling at 0.5c) will agree on the speed of light.

    This explains simultaneity very elegantly:

    If any of this confuses you, pinpoint the statement that didn't make sense, and we'll go from there. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2014
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