A (relatively) simple QM Problem, but seeking my mistake

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves calculating the expectation values and for an electron in the ground state of hydrogen, expressed in terms of the Bohr radius. The original poster attempts to derive these values using the relevant wave functions and integrals.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster describes their approach to calculating through a series of integrals, detailing their steps and substitutions. They express confusion over a discrepancy between their result and known solutions. Some participants suggest that the outer integrals could be calculated instead of ignored, while others note potential issues with unit consistency in the substitutions.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and suggestions for addressing the original poster's concerns. There is acknowledgment of a mistake related to integrating in spherical coordinates, and some participants have identified specific areas where the original poster's reasoning may have faltered.

Contextual Notes

The original poster indicates a belief that their error may stem from elementary operations rather than complex physics concepts. There is also mention of changes to forum features, such as the removal of a "thanks" button.

Emspak
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Homework Statement


Find <r> and <r2> for an electron in the ground state of hydrogen. Express in terms of Bohr radius.

Homework Equations


We know the relevant wave functions are:

R_{10} = \frac{c_0}{a}e^{r/a}Y^0_0
and Y^0_0 = \frac{1}{\sqrt{4\pi}}

The Attempt at a Solution



As I understand it the way to get <r> is to do the following integral

## \langle r \rangle = \int^{2\pi}_0 \int^{\pi}_0 \int^{\infty}_0 r |R_{10}|^2 r^2|Y^0_0|^2 dr d\theta d\phi ##

when I pug everything in, knowing that ## c_0 = \frac{2}{\sqrt{a}} ## I get

## \langle r \rangle = \int^{2\pi}_0 \int^{\pi}_0 \int^{\infty}_0 r^3 \frac{2}{a^3}e^{-2r/a} \frac{1}{4\pi} dr d\theta d\phi ##

and i can ignore (for the moment) the outer two integrals because the quantity <r> doesn't depend on either phi or theta.

So that leaves me integrating this:

## \langle r \rangle = \int^{\infty}_0 r^3 \frac{2}{a^3}e^{-2r/a} \frac{1}{4\pi} dr = \frac{1}{2 \pi a^3} \int^{\infty}_0 r^3 \frac{2}{a^3}e^{-2r/a}dr ##

Integrating by parts with ## u = r^3 ##, ## du = 3r^2 dr ##, ## dv = e^{2r/a} ## and ## v = \frac{-ae^{2r/a}}{2} ## that gets me to

## r^3 \frac{-ae^{-2r/a}}{2} - \int^{\infty}_0 \frac{-ae^{2r/a}}{2} 3r^2 dr = -r^3 \frac{ae^{-2r/a}}{2} + \frac{3}{2} \int^{\infty}_0 ae^{-2r/a} r^2 dr = r^3 \frac{ae^{-2r/a}}{2} + \frac{3a}{2} \int^{\infty}_0 e^{-2r/a} r^2 dr ##

the first term goes to zero. integrating by parts again, with ## u = r^2 ## and ## du = 2rdr ## the same thing happens:
## \frac{1}{2 \pi a^3} \frac{3}{2} \left[ -ar^2 \frac{e^{-2r/a}}{2} + \int^{\infty}_0 \frac{ae^{-2r/a}}{2} 2r dr \right] ##

that first term goes to zero again. OK so next up is another integration by parts. ## u = 2r ## and ## du = 2dr ## so
##\frac{1}{2 \pi a^3} \frac{3}{4} \left[ -2ar \frac{e^{-2r/a}}{2} + \int^{\infty}_0 \ ae^{-2r/a} dr \right] ##

and we do it all once more, to get

## \langle r \rangle = \frac{3}{8 \pi a^2} \frac{-ae^{-2r/a}}{2} |^{\infty}_0 = \frac{3}{8 \pi a^2} \left[0 + \frac{a}{2} \right] = \frac{3}{16\pi a} ##

Problem is this isn't what the various solutions I have seen to the problem gets, which is 3a/2.

So, my question is where the mistake I am making is. I posted it here because I suspect the problem is some elementary operation (rather than a deep physics problem) I am not doing right, some algebraic thing I screwed up but I went through this twice so far and can't seem to pin it down. That factor of pi has to go away somehow, for example. (In the two outer integrals maybe?)

thanks.
 
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Emspak said:
and i can ignore (for the moment) the outer two integrals because the quantity <r> doesn't depend on either phi or theta.
Instead of ignoring them, you could calculate them. They just give constant prefactors and make the solution much closer to the right answer.

At some point in your substitution, your units start to get wrong.
 
thanks -sorry i didn't get back to you sooner - i figured out what the problem was eventually (part of it was realizing that when you integrate in a sphere there are "extra" sine terms. Whoops.
btw there doesn't seem to be a thanks button anymore. :-(
 
Emspak said:
btw there doesn't seem to be a thanks button anymore. :-(
It was replaced by the "Like" button :s
 

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