A three month long summer vacation from public school seems stupid

[DaveC426913]

Nope. The summer vacation could be from July 16 to August 01 every year. The school year rigidly starts on August 01, and the school year rigidly ends on July 16. Nope, no confusion there.

And this happens magically?

As someone who works as support staff in education, I can tell you that the work put in at graduation and the work required to start the new year are both quite a lot. 160 programs: faculty, syllabus, fees etc. all get updated. The workload can't overlap.

And remember, grade school, high school and college are in lockstep. You can't change onec without othout changing them all.

Staff need more than two weeks to wrap up the old year and refurbish everything for the new year. There's a little more to the cycle than ticking a desk calendar over from 2025 to 2026.

This is what the summer is for.

You are speaking about things you do not understand.

 

[BillTre]

You are speaking about things with great conviction you do not understand.

 

[PeterDonis]

It's more important than vacations.

Maybe for you. But not everyone shares your preferences. And there is no reason why your preferences should override everyone else's.

I think that two weeks is a proper amount of time for a summer vacation.

When I was in school, two weeks was barely enough time for me to get into the swing of summer vacation. I would have hated going back to school at that point.

 

[JT Smith]

It's a question of balance and clearly there is disagreement about that. Fortunately one person's preference doesn't decide.

If I were King many of you would not be happy with many of my decisions. If I were God I would probably be hated.

 

[TensorCalculus]

I think that two weeks is a proper amount of time for a summer vacation. The summer vacation's lasting three months is a tradition that started with the advent of public schools in the 19th century. With the advent of modern airplanes in the early 20th century, one can travel anywhere in the whole world and back in two weeks.

Even if 2 weeks of travel wasn't a bit too short anyway, that would make plane tickets extremely expensive during those 2 weeks. They're expensive enough when the holidays are months long.

You can work on your own projects during a two week summer vacation, and then you can work on your projects on the weekends during the school year.

I think I can speak for a large group of students when I say I get home at 5:30pm (if I have a club, that's 6:30), and sleep at like 10, and in the time in between I have to do basic things like shower and change and eat dinner but I also have to do my homework and I have to practice my instrument and prepare for tests and olympiads and do chores and also practice things like maths and physics so that really doesn't leave much time for any projects during the week, and the weekends are always busy...
Depending on the project, 2 weeks might not be enough. And what if my family wants to go abroad during those two weeks? After all, there's no other time they can go abroad. What time would I have to relax or to work on things other than schoolwork? What about summer programmes or work experience which can be highly beneficial to students' progress and learning, but operate in the summer holidays?

That is what air-conditioning is for.

Yeah... so that's not really a thing in Britain... like I have never been to a school with AC, and most houses here don' have AC either. There are better things for the schools to spend their money on, not to mention the pain it would be to install AC in every classroom and the extra cost associated with running them.

The idea is in goodwill, but 2 weeks is far, far too short in my opinion.
Maybe America switches from 3 months to Britain's 1.5ish months. Don't know.

 

[martinbn]

Maybe America switches from 3 months to Britain's 1.5ish months. Don't know.

1.5 months in the summer, but you (in the UK) have one week off after every six weeks of school. He will not like that.

 

[TensorCalculus]

1.5 months in the summer, but you (in the UK) have one week off after every six qeeks of school. He will not like that.

Wait, Americans don't have that?

Gods, I don't think I could survive without a Christmas/Easter holiday, and half term of course

Nevertheless I would argue that having a 1.5 month summer and then lots of smaller holidays is favourable to one big holiday.
2 weeks is too short though.

 

[martinbn]

Wait, Americans don't have that?

Gods, I don't think I could survive without a Christmas/Easter holiday, and half term of course

Nevertheless I would argue that having a 1.5 month summer and then lots of smaller holidays is favourable to one big holiday.
2 weeks is too short though.

I don't know about the Americans, but I had 2.5 to 3 months in the summer, Christmas and spring breaks but no half term breaks. Or if you prefer all the half and in-between terms breaks are put in the summer. Another thing is we only had two longer semesters, not three terms like you.

 

[TensorCalculus]

I don't know about the Americans, but I had 2.5 to 3 months in the summer, Christmas and spring breaks but no half term breaks. Or if you prefer all the half and in-between terms breaks are put in the summer. Another thing is we only had two longer semesters, not three terms like you.

Oh.
That is different.

I still would prefer half terms with shorter summers :)
but not that short...

 

[PeroK]

You're assuming that the primary cause of world poverty is lack of education. I don't think that's true. I think the primary cause of world poverty is misgovernment--that countries whose people are mostly poor are governed poorly, and their governments are not held accountable for that. I think that even with the current state of education, people who are poor because they are unable to be productive aren't that way because they aren't educated well enough, but because there are political barriers in the way of them being productive. (In many underdeveloped countries, the barrier is obvious: anything a private person produces, the government takes away. There's no incentive to produce under those conditions, even if you're the most productive worker in the world.)

If this is not political, then neither is the alternative view.

Poor or corrupt government is a factor, but underdeveloped countries have been kept underdeveloped by US policy (and, to some extent the policy of Western nations). The priority is the profits of US corporations. These are maximised when the poorer nations remain poor and cannot compete with US corporations.

In many cases, countries which have tried to develop have been undermined or sabotaged by US operations.

US Aid was needed to stop many countries collapsing altogether and maintaining the status quo. Even if those involved in aid were doing it for genuine humanitarian reasons.

Now that US Aid is essentially no more, there is no counterbalance to the economic domination by the US of developing nations.

Moreover, China's policy towards the third world appears to be more mutually beneficial. China wants contracts and influence, of course, but it is prepared to allow countries to develop in the process.

This initially appears paradoxical because China is a Communist dictatorship with little official recognition of human rights. Nevertheless, China may succeed over the US in this respect.

I suggest that most of the rest of the world would see it more like that.

 

[dextercioby]

Here's my take: middle way. Yes, grant children 2 months of summer vacation, 2- 2,5 weeks of (sorry, non-Christians) Christmas vacation, one week around Easter (so April-May) and one week at the end of October. So a few days of 3 full months of vacation. But keep teachers busy for the summer, working in schools for one month (being forced to research, bring new approach to material taught, even in sciences), with only one month paid leave in the summer.

 

[BillTre]

Here's my take: middle way. Yes, grant children 2 months of summer vacation, 2- 2,5 weeks of (sorry, non-Christians) Christmas vacation, one week around Easter (so April-May) and one week at the end of October. So a few days of 3 full months of vacation. But keep teachers busy for the summer, working in schools for one month (being forced to research, bring new approach to material taught, even in sciences), with only one month paid leave in the summer.

So time off for summer, religious holidays, plus an end October Halloween (some will probably consider it Satanic).

 

[PeterDonis]

The priority is the profits of US corporations. These are maximised when the poorer nations remain poor and cannot compete with US corporations.

I don't think this is true. US corporations can increase their profits by investing in poorer countries to make them richer. But doing that requires having confidence that those investments won't be seized by the corrupt governments of the poorer countries.

I don't disagree that US corporations (and corporations in general) don't always recognize what I've stated above. But they don't completely ignore it either. See, for example:

https://www.bea.gov/news/2025/direct-investment-country-and-industry-2024

US direct investment in Asia-Pacific + Latin America/other Western Hemisphere is over $2T, which is not huge, but not negligible given the total US GDP (about $30T). Those are areas where there are enough countries that will support reasonably stable investments. The US direct investment in the Middle East and Africa is much smaller; that makes sense since there is much less support for reasonably stable investments in those regions.

 

[PeterDonis]

If this is not political, then neither is the alternative view.

I agree that both alternative views should be presented, or neither. This being GD, I think it's ok to opt for "both" at least for a little, since the OP raised the issue originally.

 

[nasu]

"But keep teachers busy for the summer, working in schools for one month (being forced to research, bring new approach to material taught, even in sciences), with only one month paid leave in the summer."

Teachers need the break at least as much as the children, if not more. (I am not a teacher, thanks God). As already hinted in other posts, reducing the breaks or changing them is not a starting point for a better system but rather (maybe) a side effect of a changed system in which shorter breaks will make sense.

 

[BillTre]

But keep teachers busy for the summer, working in schools for one month (being forced to research, bring new approach to material taught, even in sciences), with only one month paid leave in the summer.

Hey, that is not a quote from me!

 

[nasu]

Sorry, wrong quote. I quoted you quoting the original. I eliminated the author. Anyway, I answered the idea not necessarily the author of it. Didn't know what else to do to correct it.

 

[Rive]

Three months of vacation is good, but the distribution might be indeed problematic. In elementary schools the first two or three weeks (up to a month) of a new semester are traditionally about re-learning the already forgotten last year and sharing all the adventure and experience germs and bugs collected during the vacation. Definitely makes a dent on the efficiency.

But vacation is still a must. Childhood is not all about (school) education.

 

[pinball1970]

If this is not political, then neither is the alternative view.

Poor or corrupt government is a factor, but underdeveloped countries have been kept underdeveloped by US policy (and, to some extent the policy of Western nations). The priority is the profits of US corporations. These are maximised when the poorer nations remain poor and cannot compete with US corporations.

In many cases, countries which have tried to develop have been undermined or sabotaged by US operations.

US Aid was needed to stop many countries collapsing altogether and maintaining the status quo. Even if those involved in aid were doing it for genuine humanitarian reasons.

Now that US Aid is essentially no more, there is no counterbalance to the economic domination by the US of developing nations.

Moreover, China's policy towards the third world appears to be more mutually beneficial. China wants contracts and influence, of course, but it is prepared to allow countries to develop in the process.

This initially appears paradoxical because China is a Communist dictatorship with little official recognition of human rights. Nevertheless, China may succeed over the US in this respect.

I suggest that most of the rest of the world would see it more like that.

WAY to hot potato for me but I will say this in line with the OP.

Ideology, politics, ethics and morals in our formative years were found not at school all the time but in our six week holidays.

I thought it started with line 3 but besides that, pretty much there from memory after a Google.

"You got to fight for what you want,
For all that you believe.
It's right to fight for what we want,
to live the way we please.
As long as we have done our best,
then no-one can do more,
and life and love and happiness
are well worth fighting for."

 

[JT Smith]

Didn't know what else to do to correct it.

Edit it. :-)

 

[JT Smith]

Childhood is not all about (school) education.

Exactly.

Being human is not all about being productive.

 

[BillTre]

Didn't know what else to do to correct it.

Not from my post.

 

[gmax137]

These things are not monolithic, at least in the US. Here, school systems are local, run by the county/town/city. Back in the 1990s I was working in Florida. One co-worker was a local woman, brought up in the Palm Beach County schools where she had a four-semester year round schedule - I think they had a month between semesters. The number of school days per "grade year" worked out the same as anywhere else. She said she, and most others, loved it.

EDIT
I had elementary school in Virginia in the 1960s. Our summer off started first week of June, back to school first week of September. Few houses had AC and none of the schools did. It would have been brutal to have school in the summer.

My co-worker mentioned above would have been in public schools in the late 1970s/ early 80s; I think they had AC everywhere in Florida by then. Florida would not exist as we know it if not for Mr. Carrier.

 

[PeterDonis]

I had elementary school in Virginia in the 1960s. Our summer off started first week of June, back to school first week of September. Few houses had AC and none of the schools did.

It was still the same schedule in Virginia in the late 1970s and early 1980s when I went to school there. Most houses had AC by that time, but many of the schools still didn't.