And Now, here comes COVID-19 version BA.2, BA.4, BA.5,...

[kyphysics]

CVS said they no longer record shots in a vax card anymore. The last one I got recorded was the Pfizer bivalent booster.

 

[dlgoff]

Only if this was your first Covid vax ever...

Well, I had the Moderna 1st and 2nd dose on 2/10/21 and 3/10/21, which they were aware of, and the Spikevac I had on 10/3 says it expires on 10/30/2023

 

[dlgoff]

CVS said they no longer record shots in a vax card anymore. The last one I got recorded was the Pfizer bivalent booster.

I didn't get mine at a CVS.

 

[kyphysics]

I didn't get mine at a CVS.

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that you did. I was kind of just announcing it as a fact (for everyone to know) w/o any implications in mind.

Speaking of CVS, I see they are offering shingles, flu, hepatitis b, and pneumonia vaccines. I only got the COVID booster (dad has lung cancer + several other serious comorbidities, so I need to protect him).

I am going to sign up for flu this week, but never considered Hep B or Pneu in the past. Anyone else going to get these other ones?

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

Took a couple of Ibuprofen

There exist studies, if administration of antipyretic analgesics has a negative effect on the antibody response. I found no such paper specifically related to mRNA vaccine.
Example:

The timing of administration of antipyretic analgesics appears to be paramount. In all studies that reported a negative effect on antibody response, the medications were given prophylactically. Interestingly, this effect was not seen when acetaminophen was given only four hours after immunization.6 Additionally, all reported decreases in antibody response occurred only with novel antigen vaccination, with little to no impact observed following booster immunizations.

Source:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5027726/

 

[Astronuc]

I am going to sign up for flu this week, but never considered Hep B or Pneu in the past. Anyone else going to get these other ones?

I was thinking of the Pneu vaccine at some point. I could have added it to the cocktail, but I though 3 was enough (Covid booster, Influenza (for 65+), and RSV.

 

[kyphysics]

I was thinking of the Pneu vaccine at some point. I could have added it to the cocktail, but I though 3 was enough (Covid booster, Influenza (for 65+), and RSV.

I didn't get RSV yet either. I'm going to get 1 vax every 2 weeks. . .flu ---> RSV ---> tetanus (last one was 25+ years ago) ---> Hep B ---> Pneu.

Hopefully that catches me up with everything by December. I might combine a few, but just want to research to see it's okay (since I have some complicated diabetes).

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

I was thinking of the Pneu vaccine at some point. I could have added it to the cocktail, but I though 3 was enough (Covid booster, Influenza (for 65+), and RSV.

In Germany, for 60+, vaccination against herpes zoster is officially recommended.
This is the case, since in 2018 an inactivated vaccine against it was released.

See also for USA:
https://www.cdc.gov/shingles/vaccination.html

 

[Astronuc]

In Germany, for 60+, vaccination against herpes zoster is officially recommended.
This is the case, since in 2018 an inactivated vaccine against it was released.

They actually gave me the option of adding the pneumococcal and Herpes zoster vaccines. I decided to defer. I thought 3 was enough in one event.

Herpes zoster, also known as shingles, is caused by reactivation of varicella-zoster virus (VZV), the same virus that causes varicella (chickenpox).

I had a varicella (chickenpox) infection in 1965. My brother got it first, so I was sent to stay with grandparents. He recovered, then I came down with it probably a week after I returned home.

I do plan to get the other vaccinations.

 

[dlgoff]

So far no side effects from the latest COV booster.

@berkeman
I got the SPIKEVAX on 10/3/23 and I got some heart pains. They are recommending a second shot but I'm not going to get it. See:
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/c...link-very-rare-cases-myocarditis-pericarditis

 

[berkeman]

@berkeman
I got the SPIKEVAX on 10/3/23 and I got some heart pains. They are recommending a second shot but I'm not going to get it. See:
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/c...link-very-rare-cases-myocarditis-pericarditis

Talk to your doc, Don. It's probably a good idea to get a 12-lead EKG and other tests. We can discuss it via PMs.

 

[Laroxe]

I'll be getting Covid (SARS-Cov-2) booster, Influenza and RSV simultaneously. I'll report on any reaction.

Meanwhile - Men at greater risk of severe Covid - and now experts may know why
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...ovid-and-now-experts-may-know-why/ar-AA1hG5w9
See the PF thread on ACE-2 decoy.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...solution-to-covid-19-using-ace2-decoy.987905/

This seems to revisit an idea that they have been working on since 2020, the rational given in the article is simplistic and unhelpful. The protein products of ACEII expression are clearly important as the entry point of the SARS-CoV-2 virus into cells, it forms part of a functional biochemical network, it doesn't function in isolation. Its not clear why the fact many of the genes associated with immunity are on the X chromosome is important, it may be, but generally the second copy in women is epigenetically turned off. Then of course the presence of the gene doesn't really indicate its expression and that's what effects the protein product levels. In fact, the Genotype-Tissue Expression database reveals 15 e quantitative trait locus variants that regulate the expression of ACE2 in human and the presence of these variants occurs at different frequencies in different ethnic groups. While there do seem to be differences based on ethnicity, the picture isn't clear, it seems that none of these specific variants are associated with hypertension in any of the global studies, ruling out the possibility of a common genetic mechanism for the onset of hypertension and SARS-CoV-2 infection.

Of course the rate and course of infection rely on the effects of both biology and behaviour, and in both of these gender is a significant factor. It is already well established that the immune systems of men and women respond to the challenges of infection rather differently, particularly during a woman's period of fertility. It appears that a woman's immune system responds more quickly and more vigorously to infectious agents, this probably represents an adaptation to protect a fetus, this increased reactivity might also explain why women are more likely to suffer autoimmune conditions later in life. I understand that there are also some important interactions between oestrogen and the ACEII proteins which might also be significant, but I'm afraid that isn't something I'm familiar with.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7314689/

 

[Astronuc]

The new omicron subvariant has rapidly overtaken other strains, including EG.5 aka Eris, to become the dominant variant in the U.S. As of late October, HV.1 is responsible for more than a quarter of all COVID-19 cases, and health officials are monitoring the new variant amid concerns of a winter COVID-19 surge.

HV.1 accounted for an estimated 25.2% of new COVID-19 cases during the two-week period ending Oct. 28, according to the latest data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

After HV.1, the next most common variant in the U.S. was EG.5, which made up 22% of cases, followed by FL.1.5.1 or “Fornax,” and XBB.1.16 or “Arcturus.” (Globally, EG.5 is still the dominant strain, according to the World Health Organization.)

All of the most prevalent COVID-19 strains in the U.S. are offshoots of omicron, which first emerged in November 2021.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/ot...hese-are-its-most-common-symptoms/ar-AA1jJniO

HV.1 is part of the omicron family. “You can almost think of HV.1 as a grandchild of omicron,” says Schaffner. HV.1 is a sublineage of omicron XBB.1.9.2 and a direct descendent of EG.5, according to the CDC's SARS-CoV-2 lineage tree.

. . .
However, there are a few highly mutated strains which have set off alarm bells. These include BA.2.86 or Pirola, which has an extra 36 mutations that differentiate it from XBB.1.5., and a newer variant called JN.1, which has one more mutation than Pirola.

Fortunately, neither BA.2.86 nor JN.1 are common in the U.S. right now, according to the CDC — JN.1 is so rare that it makes up fewer than 0.1% of SARS-CoV-2 cases.

As for HV.1, it rapidly gained steam after it was first detected this past summer. In late July, HV.1 accounted for just 0.5% of COVID-19 cases in the U.S., CDC data show. By Sept. 30, HV.1 made up 12.5% of cases, and by November, it was the dominant strain.

The new boosters have been reformulated to target omicron XBB.1.5, which was the dominant COVID variant for most of 2023. While XBB.1.5 has since been overtaken by HV.1, Eris, Fornax and Arcturus, it is still closely related to these newer strains.

 

[pinball1970]

I didn't get RSV yet either. I'm going to get 1 vax every 2 weeks. . .flu ---> RSV ---> tetanus (last one was 25+ years ago) ---> Hep B ---> Pneu.

Hopefully that catches me up with everything by December. I might combine a few, but just want to research to see it's okay (since I have some complicated diabetes).

RSV not available in the UK till June this year. I was not offered it with my flu/Covid jab last month.
I will discuss with my GP next check up.

 

[kyphysics]

RSV not available in the UK till June this year. I was not offered it with my flu/Covid jab last month.
I will discuss with my GP next check up.

I got my flu shot w/ zero side-effects (I've never had any ever. . .only with the COVID shots). I will get tetanus (not RSV) next week.

 

[kyphysics]

COVID will likely reach levels in December not yet seen this year, combining with surges of flu, RSV, and other pathogens for a winter not so different from last year’s “tripledemic,” experts say.

https://fortune.com/well/2023/12/01...ic-tripledemic-winter-2023-respiratory-virus/


EFD giving some winter warnings that fit with some recent news. My state of Virginia is seeing "very high" levels of COVID in sewage samples. Lots of people filling up E.R.s lately (I drive by every day and volunteered at one for three years here).

 

[Astronuc]

JN.1 was first detected in the U.S. in September. It had previously been classified with BA.2.86, or Pirola, a descendant of the omicron family, which some researchers early on worried could pose risks, but cases have recently declined in CDC estimates. In contrast, the original omicron variant overwhelmed hospital systems in 2022.

So far, it appears JN.1 doesn’t present a greater risk. Vaccination and previous infection also appear to help reduce the risk of serious illness from JN.1.

https://news.yahoo.com/growing-covid-19-variant-taken-184948041.html

According to the CDC, Louisiana and South Carolina are currently facing "very high levels" of respiratory illnesses. Meanwhile, New York, North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Texas, California, New Jersey, Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado, and Wyoming are witnessing "high levels" of respiratory illnesses. Additionally, eight more states and Washington, D.C., are showing an upward trend at a moderate level.

High percentages of positive COVID-19 cases, emergency department visits, and hospitalizations are reported nationwide, with a total of 22,513 admissions in the past week.

Furthermore, the nationwide rates of emergency department visits and hospitalizations due to influenza are on the rise. Simultaneously, hospitalization rates for RSV are also increasing among both young children and older adults.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/ot...y-high-respiratory-illness-levels/ar-AA1lsJ1l

 

[kyphysics]

 

[kyphysics]

New, highly mutated COVID variants ‘Pirola’ BA.2.86 and JN.1 may cause more severe disease, new studies suggest​

https://fortune.com/well/2024/01/08...1-more-severe-disease-lung-gi-tract-symptoms/

Highly mutated COVID variant BA.2.86—close ancestor of globally dominant “Pirola” JN.1—may lead to more severe disease than other Omicron variants, according to two new studies published Monday in the journal Cell.

In one study, researchers from Ohio State University performed a variety of experiments using a BA.2.86 pseudovirus—a lab-created version that isn’t infectious. They found that BA.2.86 can fuse to human cells more efficiently and infect cells that line the lower lung—traits that may make it more similar to initial, pre-Omicron strains that were more deadly.

In the other study, researchers in Germany and France came to the same conclusion. “BA.2.86 has regained a trait characteristic of early SARS-CoV-2 lineages: robust lung cell entry,” the authors wrote. The variant “might constitute an elevated health threat as compared to previous Omicron sublineages,” they added.

 

[Astronuc]

New, highly mutated COVID variants ‘Pirola’ BA.2.86 and JN.1 may cause more severe disease, new studies suggest

I read the same article, which was accompanied by a video.

A medical researcher mentions that BA.2.86 is a variant of Omicron, but may cause more severe disease, partly for what cells it attacks and it being more efficient at binding and infecting certain cells. BA.2.86 is phylogenetically distinct from Omicron XBB lineages with 30 more mutations on the spike protein, whereas JN.1 has L455 mutation on the spike protein and 3 non-S mutations, so more transmissibility and immune evasive property.

BA.2.86 seems to favor cells in the lungs (article mentions lower lung), while JN.1 may favor cells in the GI tract (intestines).

I also read a brief summary suggesting that SARS-Cov2 can damage mitochondria in the cells it attacks, which perhaps is responsible for long-Covid symptoms in some. I since found the following:

SARS-CoV-2 can cause lasting damage to cells’ energy production
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih...-cause-lasting-damage-cells-energy-production

Tissue samples taken during autopsies from the heart, kidney, liver, and lymph nodes continued to show suppression of these mitochondrial genes long after the virus had been cleared from the body. The reason for this continued suppression is unclear. In tandem with reduced mitochondrial function in these tissues, the researchers saw an upregulation of genes related to cellular stress.

“The continued dysfunction we observed in organs other than the lungs suggests that mitochondrial dysfunction could be causing long-term damage to the internal organs of these patients,” Wallace says.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/toward-deeper-understanding-long-covid

 

[Nik_2213]

Tangential, the prospect of another new, nasty Covid variant coming through seems unlikely to change vaxx attitudes before distancing / masking re-introduced...

Based on casual enquiry --'NO Control Group'-- around usual dozen or so immediate neighbours and acquaintances, we again divide into my 'fully vaccinated' faction --Covid, Seasonal Flu & Decadal Pneumonia-- and the minimally vaccinated rest, be they out-right anti-vaxxers, efficacy disbelievers and/or 'Couldn't Be Bothered'...

Upside, UK is safely through the Winter Solstice, past the peak of family gatherings and crowd-drawing, virus-spreading 'Winter Sales'. Down-side, IIRC, waste-water monitoring shows an unsettling rise in viral loads...

Take Care Out There !!

 

[pinball1970]

Tangential, the prospect of another new, nasty Covid variant coming through seems unlikely to change vaxx attitudes before distancing / masking re-introduced...

Based on casual enquiry --'NO Control Group'-- around usual dozen or so immediate neighbours and acquaintances, we again divide into my 'fully vaccinated' faction --Covid, Seasonal Flu & Decadal Pneumonia-- and the minimally vaccinated rest, be they out-right anti-vaxxers, efficacy disbelievers and/or 'Couldn't Be Bothered'...

Upside, UK is safely through the Winter Solstice, past the peak of family gatherings and crowd-drawing, virus-spreading 'Winter Sales'. Down-side, IIRC, waste-water monitoring shows an unsettling rise in viral loads...

Take Care Out There !!

A study in the Lancet, deaths from under vaccination.

"7,000 people were hospitalized or died from COVID-19 in the UK during the summer of 2022 because they had not received the recommended number of vaccine doses"

Full article

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-01-uk-wide-reveals-people-covid.html

Lancet publication.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02467-4/fulltext (the DOI link did not work)

 

[Laroxe]

I think it's entirely predictable that we are seeing new variants, in fact there are many more around than what we see reported, we only see reports when one variant starts to be seen more frequently. Identified genetic changes don't tell us very much really, they happen all the time, particularly in RNA viruses & most of these will either be damaging to the virus or largely irrelevant. Even the identified changes in the genome that affect the structure of the spike protein may not cause predictable changes. The concern that the Pirola variant may have advantages in gaining cell entry don't seem likely, none of the Omicron variants appear to have any difficulty with this, in some cases the incubation period between exposure and symptom onset can be 1-2 days, that's fast.

I will also say that these studies on the risk of severe outcomes with different vaccine doses are less than helpful, in fact the lancet article might as well have been written in Russian, and I don't speak Russian. They seem to have forgotten to mention the study population of roughly 64 million, and I couldn't find any overall hazard ratio. They also fail to make what they mean by undervaccinated, the guidelines at the time specified different numbers of vaccinations for different age groups. At the time of the study to be fully vaccinated was to have received two with the third considered a booster dose. A second booster became available for most people in September of 2022, after this study.

I suspect attempting to provide some sort of general estimate of risk, when we consider the range of significant variables, was a rater pointless exercise. I've provided a link to a rather less opaque study that looks at similar issues after the 2nd booster, naturally they use different cut off points, so comparisons are useless. It does however make some interesting points, the first is that even after the 2nd booster, when compared to people under 50, those over 80 were 10.43 times more likely to experience severe outcomes. The study also demonstrated the effects of the time between vaccinations, which is increasingly identified as important. People receiving the booster after a period of less than 24 weeks from a previous vaccination were actually at increased risk, I've seen it suggested that a vaccination given too soon can actually damage the immune status. Finally, they report the effects of BMI on risk suggesting

For BMI, we found that those classified as underweight (BMI<18.5) were at greater risk of a severe outcome
than those classified as overweight (BMI 25.0–29.9). Additionally, those classified as a healthy weight (BMI 18.5–24.9) were 1.36(1.25–1.48) times more likely to experience a severe outcome than those classified as overweight. This seems to match the findings of Fragal on BMI and mortality, perhaps you need some stored calories to survive in intensive care. Obesity is still a significant risk.https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(23)00235-1/fulltext

 

[pinball1970]

I think it's entirely predictable that we are seeing new variants, in fact there are many more around than what we see reported, we only see reports when one variant starts to be seen more frequently. Identified genetic changes don't tell us very much really, they happen all the time, particularly in RNA viruses & most of these will either be damaging to the virus or largely irrelevant. Even the identified changes in the genome that affect the structure of the spike protein may not cause predictable changes. The concern that the Pirola variant may have advantages in gaining cell entry don't seem likely, none of the Omicron variants appear to have any difficulty with this, in some cases the incubation period between exposure and symptom onset can be 1-2 days, that's fast.

I will also say that these studies on the risk of severe outcomes with different vaccine doses are less than helpful, in fact the lancet article might as well have been written in Russian, and I don't speak Russian. They seem to have forgotten to mention the study population of roughly 64 million, and I couldn't find any overall hazard ratio. They also fail to make what they mean by undervaccinated, the guidelines at the time specified different numbers of vaccinations for different age groups. At the time of the study to be fully vaccinated was to have received two with the third considered a booster dose. A second booster became available for most people in September of 2022, after this study.

I suspect attempting to provide some sort of general estimate of risk, when we consider the range of significant variables, was a rater pointless exercise. I've provided a link to a rather less opaque study that looks at similar issues after the 2nd booster, naturally they use different cut off points, so comparisons are useless. It does however make some interesting points, the first is that even after the 2nd booster, when compared to people under 50, those over 80 were 10.43 times more likely to experience severe outcomes. The study also demonstrated the effects of the time between vaccinations, which is increasingly identified as important. People receiving the booster after a period of less than 24 weeks from a previous vaccination were actually at increased risk, I've seen it suggested that a vaccination given too soon can actually damage the immune status. Finally, they report the effects of BMI on risk suggesting

For BMI, we found that those classified as underweight (BMI<18.5) were at greater risk of a severe outcome
than those classified as overweight (BMI 25.0–29.9). Additionally, those classified as a healthy weight (BMI 18.5–24.9) were 1.36(1.25–1.48) times more likely to experience a severe outcome than those classified as overweight. This seems to match the findings of Fragal on BMI and mortality, perhaps you need some stored calories to survive in intensive care. Obesity is still a significant risk.https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(23)00235-1/fulltext

I need to digest this. Informative as usual sir.

 

[Astronuc]

My son tested positive for Covid on Wednesday this week, and I had a positive test result today. We probably have JN.1. My son likely brought it home from work, or a day out with a co-worker. While he generally wears a mask at work (one the few), he has to remove his mask to eat and drink.

My son was last at work on Tuesday last week and with a co-worker on Wednesday, last week. He started to show symptoms Sunday evening with a cough and congestion. He worked Tuesday, then only half of a shift on Wednesday this week. He was feeling very fatigued by Wednesday, and arranged for test Wednesday afternoon. I started showing symptoms last night - chills and some congestion.

This morning - no fever or cough, but congestion, sinus pressure, definitely fatigue, slightly runny nose, and mild headache. I will start on Paxlovid.

So far, it feels like a bad head cold - very unpleasant. So, my day zero was yesterday, the today is considered Day 1 for symptoms - another 4 days to go as symptoms are supposed to subside.

I had the most recent booster in mid October. My son has not yet received the latest booster.

 

[PeroK]

I know that during the pandemic several people watched John Campbell's videos on COVID data. Sadly, Campbell seems to have sunk into a full-scale COVID "big pharma" conspiracy theorist and ardent climate change denier. I won't link to the video that YouTube just served up, but it was a bit of a shock.

 

[Astronuc]

Sadly, Campbell seems to have sunk into a full-scale COVID "big pharma" conspiracy theorist and ardent climate change denier.

That's disappointing.

I can attest to the effectiveness of masks, vaccines and Paxlovid. I'm on day 3 of taking Paxlovid, starting last Friday evening after testing positive for Covid. Thursday evening, I was showing symptoms similar to a normal common (Rhinovirus/Coronavirus) cold - mostly congestion, runny nose, slight headache and chills; I also has a slight and infrequent cough. I called my doctor on Friday morning, but couldn't get an appointment until Friday afternoon. I tested positive, so the doctor prescribed Paxlovid, and I was able to start taking the medication Friday evening. On Friday, I was having much stronger symptoms including fatigue, but fortunately, no strong cough. After 24 hours on Paxlovid, the symptoms became muich milder, and the congestion and runny nose abated, and now two days later, I feel more or less normal.

My son had tested postive on Wednesay afternoon. He was not prescribed Paxlovid, since it is currently reserved for those under 18, 50 or older, and those at risk of medical complication, or who have some health vulnerability. I think he should have insisted, since he was quite ill, and this was his second time, and his symptoms were more severe, including changes to his senses of smell and taste, and he had a fever and cough. He did not get the recent booster.

My wife tested negative for Covid on Friday evening, but tested again Saturday morning with a positive result. She started showing symptoms Friday night into Saturday.

We always wear masks in public and my son wears a mask at work, but he does remove the mask to eat and drink. He either got the virus at work, or Wednesday (12 days ago) at lunch with a coworker, and was probably infection on the following Saturday when we drove about 90 miles to visit a museum, and returned during the late afternoon. In public we all wore masks at the museum, but not during the car ride.

 

[PeroK]

That's disappointing.

One of the things that frustrates me most is to see two old men (in their 70's) trash climate science when they are not going to have to live with the consequences.

 

[OmCheeto]

I know that during the pandemic several people watched John Campbell's videos on COVID data. Sadly, Campbell seems to have sunk into a full-scale COVID "big pharma" conspiracy theorist and ardent climate change denier. I won't link to the video that YouTube just served up, but it was a bit of a shock.

I would be one of those who watched his videos religiously. Then one day, he stopped making sense. One of his latest 'things' is 'excess deaths'. I suspect it's one of those 'it's outside his field of expertise so he's getting it VERY wrong' type of things. Not that I'm even remotely familiar with the topic, but after a few hours of analysis, I can make 'excess deaths' numbers do whatever I want.

Yup. Between 2009 and 2017, the number of deaths in the U.S. increased by 41,800 deaths per year. If you follow that trend through 2023, the number of people who should have died for the years 2020 through 2023 should have been 11.84 million. Yet when you ignore Covid deaths only 11.78 million died during that period.

Of course, this is out of my field of expertise, so everyone should ignore me too.

Interestingly, the CDC uses the year 2017 through 2019 as their baseline. It's interesting because fewer people died in 2019 compared to 2018, and was effectively flat from 2017 through 2019. In their scenario, any increase in deaths shows up as 'excess deaths'. So I would ignore them also.
Doctors doing maths. Ha!

 

[pinball1970]

That's disappointing.

I can attest to the effectiveness of masks, vaccines and Paxlovid. I'm on day 3 of taking Paxlovid, starting last Friday evening after testing positive for Covid. Thursday evening, I was showing symptoms similar to a normal common (Rhinovirus/Coronavirus) cold - mostly congestion, runny nose, slight headache and chills; I also has a slight and infrequent cough. I called my doctor on Friday morning, but couldn't get an appointment until Friday afternoon. I tested positive, so the doctor prescribed Paxlovid, and I was able to start taking the medication Friday evening. On Friday, I was having much stronger symptoms including fatigue, but fortunately, no strong cough. After 24 hours on Paxlovid, the symptoms became muich milder, and the congestion and runny nose abated, and now two days later, I feel more or less normal.

My son had tested postive on Wednesay afternoon. He was not prescribed Paxlovid, since it is currently reserved for those under 18, 50 or older, and those at risk of medical complication, or who have some health vulnerability. I think he should have insisted, since he was quite ill, and this was his second time, and his symptoms were more severe, including changes to his senses of smell and taste, and he had a fever and cough. He did not get the recent booster.

My wife tested negative for Covid on Friday evening, but tested again Saturday morning with a positive result. She started showing symptoms Friday night into Saturday.

We always wear masks in public and my son wears a mask at work, but he does remove the mask to eat and drink. He either got the virus at work, or Wednesday (12 days ago) at lunch with a coworker, and was probably infection on the following Saturday when we drove about 90 miles to visit a museum, and returned during the late afternoon. In public we all wore masks at the museum, but not during the car ride.

Talking of Paxlovid I came across this article

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-01-antiviral-medication-covid-patients-access.html

"Lemieux and her colleagues have modified a specific area of the molecule in the active drug that enables it to stay in the system—meaning an additional "booster" drug is not necessary. This could help widen the use of the drug and allow more people to safely treat their COVID infection"

The paper was published in Aug so may have mentioned somewhere else on PF

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsbiomedchemau.3c00039

 

[Laroxe]

I agree that John Campbells youtube video's seem to have become focussed on the issue of excess deaths, which he thinks are being ignored. That's not my impression at all, there is certainly an issue in the possible longer term harm associated with Covid and the its effects on healthcare generally but there is a lot of work going on looking at the way this virus interacts with our immune system. The fact remains that the real threat is from the disease itself and he seems to be ignoring the realities of risk assessment.

I have no problem with challenges to the scientific evidence, science is based on scepticism really and challenges that address issues about how the data was collected, data analysis and how conclusions are reached can be very useful. Even the more common questions that require clearer explanations have an important function and I think the people who pay for the science, often the public, have a right to ask. Unfortunately, it's become common for people to challenge science simply based on whether they agree with the results, and they leave no room for discussion about the methods etc. This isn't really a science issue, but current culture has presented it as something that the people in science have to address, usually they can't. What Campbell talks about is technically correct, but with no context it's meaningless, the problem is that he is not a virologist or immunologist and these are very complex issues, there are far better sources out here, he's moved into the political domain. These days the public see's our political masters as dishonest and self-serving, so politicians have been trying to suggest that their actions are based in science to borrow at least some of the credibility of scientists. Unfortunately, what we see instead is that the public now see science as part of government and deserving of the same level of trust and credibility. It's interesting that lately we have also seen some large environmental groups getting increasing amounts of government funding and being given power through advisor roles. It has become clear that many of the actions taken in order to manage climate change through subsidies have given a clear economic advantage to the wealthy at a cost to the poor. This has led to some conflict between some environmental groups, an increased erosion of support for climate action and hostility to activists. None of this seems to be about the science.

 

[Astronuc]

Talking of Paxlovid I came across this article

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-01-antiviral-medication-covid-patients-access.html

"Lemieux and her colleagues have modified a specific area of the molecule in the active drug that enables it to stay in the system—meaning an additional "booster" drug is not necessary. This could help widen the use of the drug and allow more people to safely treat their COVID infection"

The paper was published in Aug so may have mentioned somewhere else on PF

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsbiomedchemau.3c00039

That's an interesting twist on chemistry, replacing H with D in a molecule to affect its function.

The Paxlovid I take has 1 capsule of ritonavir and the active ingredient, which attaches to the virus is nirmatrelvir.

I also took aspirin, which it turns out is recommended for those who are prone to clotting from SARS-Cov-2. My wife's doctor indicated that many severely ill patients have thromboses, and not just pulmonary or cardio thromboses, but potentially the brain and other organs. This has been well documented.

The current variant, JN.1, seems mostly to involve the nose, sinues and throat, and potentially the olfactory system. However, it can spread to the lungs and cause more severe effects. I expect the virus can get into the blood stream and travel anywhere. Our region is seeing a marked increase in hospitalizations and some fatalities from/with Covid, at a level of about 10x that of influenza cases.

My wife found the following at Yale Medicine

Paxlovid is an antiviral therapy that consists of two separate medications packaged together. When you take your three-pill dose, two of those pills will be nirmatrelvir, which inhibits a key enzyme that the COVID virus requires in order to make functional virus particles. After nirmatrelvir treatment, the COVID virus that is released from the cells is no longer able to enter uninfected cells in the body, which, in turn, stops the infection. The other is ritonavir, a drug that was once used to treat HIV/AIDS but is now used to boost levels of antiviral medicines.

As a COVID-19 treatment, ritonavir essentially shuts down nirmatrelvir’s metabolism in the liver, so that it doesn’t move out of your body as quickly, which means it can work longer—giving it a boost to help fight the infection.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/13-things-to-know-paxlovid-covid-19

The article answers questions like When should one take Paxlovid? Answer: Paxlovid should be taken within five days of developing symptoms.

I started taking it within 24 hours of onset of symptoms, which were typical of a common cold, but I knew that my son had tested positive. Otherwise, I would have assumed normal causes of a runny nose and sinus congestion. Similarly, my wife would have assumed normal causes for her symptoms, which were developing 24 hours of mine. Incidentally, my wife did an at home test, which gave a negative result last Friday evening; on Saturday morning, she did a subsequent test, which yielded a positive result. She was able to get a prescription for Paxlovid on Saturday morning and began the 5 day treatment.

Another question: Is Paxlovid similar to Tamiflu? Answer:

Tamiflu is an antiviral drug that reduces flu symptoms. Both are prescription-only oral antiviral pills given early in illness.

Tamiflu is taken twice a day for five days, and it must be started within 48 hours of flu onset. “When you give a patient Tamiflu beyond that, it doesn’t really change the course of their flu,” Dr. Roberts says.

But there are also differences between the two, starting with the way they were studied, Dr. Topal adds. Researchers showed that Paxlovid can prevent hospitalization and death. But since influenza causes fewer severe cases, clinical trials focused on whether Tamiflu could shorten the length of flu illness—which it did, he says.

I took Tamiflu when I had the flu, which was the only year I did not get the flu vaccine (which I have done every year since). I was quite ill with a high fever ~102.4°F (39°C) on a Sunday evening with a severe cough and sneezing. Within 12 hours of taking Tamiflu within 24 hours of onset of symptoms, the severity of the illness diminished and my fever was reduced to less than 38°C. I also took aspirin for the fever, which abated 48 hours after beginning Tamiflu.

 

[nsaspook]

https://www.wsj.com/health/wellness/covid-guidelines-2024-cdc-symptoms-contagious-cdefb6b8
It’s Official: We Can Pretty Much Treat Covid Like the Flu Now. Here’s a Guide.
New guidelines from the CDC Friday bring Covid precautions in line with with those of other respiratory viruses

https://www.cdc.gov/respiratory-viruses/background/index.html

 

[nsaspook]