Antenna Signals: Reflection, Distance and Phase

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of phase in signals received from antennas, particularly focusing on the effects of reflection and distance on signal reception. Participants explore the implications of phase differences in electromagnetic signals and their practical applications in communication technologies.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant introduces the idea of two signals from an antenna, one of which is reflected, leading to a difference in phase upon reception.
  • Another participant explains that phase relates to the shift between corresponding amplitudes of signals, using mathematical expressions to illustrate phase shifts.
  • Several participants seek clarification on what it means for signals to be received with a phase difference, indicating a lack of understanding of the concept.
  • A participant notes that the temporal phase shift in electromagnetic signals means that signals arrive at different times, which can provide directional information but complicates the utilization of multiple signals.
  • One participant mentions the phenomenon of ghost images in TV signals as a consequence of phase differences.
  • Another participant describes the experience of hearing variations in AM broadcast signals due to constructive and destructive interference from ground and reflected waves.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the concept of phase and its implications. While some explanations are provided, there is no consensus on the clarity of the concept, and multiple viewpoints on its effects are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the nuances of phase differences in signals, including the implications of temporal shifts and their practical effects in communication scenarios.

dervast
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Hi let's suppore that an antenna creates two signals... The two signal are received from an other antenna but with a main difference. The one of the two signal is reflected in a surface which means that it will travel bigger distance... The two signals are received with a difference in the phase... But what do we mean phase in a signal?
 
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Phase has to do with the shift between corresponding amplitudes between signals.

For example, given signals [itex]A cos (\omega\,t)[/itex] and [itex]A cos (\omega\,t + \theta)[/itex], the phase shift is given by the angle [itex]\theta[/itex].

The phase shift can be spatial, as for sound and water waves, or temporal, as in two EM signals.

Constructive and destructive interference are caused by phase differences.
 
Thx a lot ... but what do we mean that two signals are received with a difference in the phase?
 
dervast said:
Thx a lot ... but what do we mean that two signals are received with a difference in the phase?
The differerence is in time
The phase shift is temporal in EM (electromagnetic) signals (as Astronuc explained). Meaning the two signals will arrive at the receiving antenna, at two different times. This is useful information, if you would like to know the direction the signal is coming. But creates a problem when you are trying to utilize information from more than one propagated signal.

This happens (for example) when you use a cell phone and are moving (walking, driving, flying). For the antenna at the cell tower to most efficiently utilize all of your signal, it should add all of your phase-delayed signals and then shift each one by the appropriate time, so that they become reconstructed in the same phase.
 
Last edited:
dervast said:
Thx a lot ... but what do we mean that two signals are received with a difference in the phase?
If this happens with a TV signal, you will see a ghost image, slightly apart from the original one.
 
If you listen to an AM broadcast signal at night time, even from a stationary reciever, you may hear a distant broadcast slowly become softer and then louder. You are getting destructive & constructive interference (as Astronuc mentioned) between the ground waves and the ionospheric reflected waves.
 

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