Apparent Contradiction: Every Map from a Contractible Space to any X is trivi

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of homotopy in the context of contractible spaces and mappings from a contractible space to a topological space. Participants explore the implications of a map from a contractible space being homotopic to a constant map, particularly focusing on the example of mapping the unit interval to the circle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the result that every map from a contractible space is homotopic to a constant map, particularly in relation to the example of mapping the interval to the circle.
  • One participant suggests that the homotopy between a map and a constant map does not imply that the image of the map is contractible.
  • Another participant proposes a formal approach to demonstrate the distinction between homotopy and contractibility, but struggles with the geometric intuition behind it.
  • Concerns are raised about the continuity of the homotopy and whether it involves tearing the circle, with some arguing that tearing does not necessarily lead to discontinuity.
  • Participants discuss the independence of the endpoints in the interval and how this affects the homotopy process.
  • One participant introduces a metaphor involving a shoelace to illustrate how points can be separated without tearing, suggesting a way to visualize the homotopy.
  • Another participant considers the inverse image of the mapping as a sheaf, indicating a more complex interpretation of the mapping process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the interpretation of the homotopy and its implications for contractibility. Participants express differing views on whether the mapping process involves tearing and how to visualize the homotopy.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of distinguishing between the map and its image, as well as the role of endpoints in the interval during the homotopy process. There are unresolved questions regarding the continuity and geometric intuition of the homotopy.

Bacle
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Hi, everyone:

I am confused about the result that every map from a contractible space X into
any topological space Y is contractible.

I think the caveat here is that the homotopy between any f:X-->Y and c:X-->Y

with c(X)={pt.} is that the homotopy is free, i.e., the endpoints are not fixed.


Still, I find the example of f:I-->S^1 , with I the unit interval,
particularly confusing:

Consider the path f(t)=e^2iPit. According to this result, since
I is contractible ( I am contractible?:smile) :, f(t) is trivial, i.e., f(t) is homotopic
to a point.

*But* since e^2iPit does a full loop around S^1 , i.e,
f(I)= (S^1), we must tear f(I) open , to be able to homotope it
to a point. Isn't this tearing necessarily discontinuous, even if we do not fix the
endpoints in S^1.?.
If not, what would be an actual homotopy between e^2iPit and {.pt.}?

Thanks.
 
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Hi Bacle. The easy answer is that if a space retracts onto a point, i.e. we have a map

F:X \times I \rightarrow X

such that F restricted to X \times {0} is the identity, and F restricted to X \times {1} is constant, then a homotopy is constructed using f(F).
 
Saying that a map f:X --> Y is homotopic to a constant map is not the same thing as saying that f(X) is contractible.
 
If that were true, every space would be contractible.
 
Thanks to Both.

Hurkyl wrote:

" Saying that a map f:X --> Y is homotopic to a constant map is not the same thing as saying that f(X) is contractible. "

I understand, and that is the whole point. I think I know
how to show this formally (see below) , but I cannot see it geometrically/intuitively.
I fail to see intuitively/geometrically how we could deform the circle into a point in a
continuous way.

I had been working along the lines of what Zhentil suggested. I had
constructed a homotopy F(x,t) , from the unit interval I to {1}:

F(x,t)=(1-t)x+t , then H(x,0)=x ; H(x,1)=1 . Using f(t)=ei2Pit

Then f(F(x,t))=f( (1-t)x+t)= ei2Pi((1-t)x+t)

and f(F(x,0))=ei2Pix , and f(F(x,1))=ei2Pi=(1,0)


Which I think is formally correct, tho showing the continuity of f(F) is kind of
a hassle.

What seems confusing is that in this case f(X)=Y . So f(X) coincides with the
whole space Y . How isn't then the contractibility of f(X) not equivalent to
f:X-->Y being inessential.?. If f(x) were not onto, the question would be trivial
to me. What is confusing is that f(X)=Y in this case.

Thanks.
 
You can't deform a circle to a point -- but you can deform a map from the interval to a circle to a map from the interval to a point.

Maybe your problem is that you're confusing the map with its image?

0 and 1 are different points of the interval, so a homotopy g-->h is allowed to "move" the images of those points independently.

But by focusing on the image of f, you've "forgotten" that 0 and 1 are different, which makes it difficult for you to picture how your homotopy works.
 
Thanks, Hurkyl. Just one more please. (if I don't get it after this one, I will

just meditate on it some more.)


Please tell me if this is correct: this homotopy actually _does_ tear the circle

open. But because of what you said ( 1 and 0 are not close by.) , tearing the

circle (which is, I think, what we do when go from:
:

f(F(x,0))=ei2Pix, to:

ei2Pi((1-eps.)t+eps. , with eps.->0+

is not discontinuous, because it is not the case that points nearby are not sent

(via the tearing) to points "far-away" , i.e., tearing does not violate a del.-eps

argument (which we can use for X,Y metric).

Sorry if this is contrived.

Thanks Again.
 


Bacle said:
Thanks, Hurkyl. Just one more please. (if I don't get it after this one, I will

just meditate on it some more.)


Please tell me if this is correct: this homotopy actually _does_ tear the circle

open. But because of what you said ( 1 and 0 are not close by --as points in I, with
metric |x-y|.) , tearing the

circle (which is, I think, what we do when go from:
:

f(F(x,0))=ei2Pix, to:

ei2Pi((1-eps.)t+eps. , with eps.->0+ )

is not discontinuous, because it is not the case that points nearby are not sent

(via the tearing) to points "far-away" , i.e., tearing does not violate a del.-eps

argument (which we can use for X,Y metric). Points near (1,0) , both from above,

and from below, are points whose preimages are not close-by.

Sorry if this is contrived.

Thanks Again For your Patience.
 
Think of it this way: take a shoe string, and line up the ends so it forms a circle. You can pull it apart without tearing, i.e. on the interval, 0 and 1 are distinct points, but on the circle, they aren't (if we view the circle as the quotient of the interval).
 
  • #10
Maybe the words you are using invoke a different mental picture to me than they do to you. It really sounds like the words you use are talking about functions and homotopies from the circle, rather than from the interval.


Now, I could imagine thinking about the following:

We can interpret the inverse image of f:I --> S1 as a sheaf on S1 -- over each point of S1 we have a single point, except for 1, over which we have two points.

There is probably a sense in which we could compose with the homotopy F, giving us a picture of the two points lying over 1 separating; one staying in place and the other moving around the circle.
 

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