Engineering Applying Physics to Vehicle Dynamics: Do Wheel Number Matter?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the application of physics to vehicle dynamics, particularly regarding the impact of wheel number on vehicle acceleration. The original poster questions whether to multiply the friction force of a single wheel by the total number of wheels, considering that each wheel contributes to the overall friction and mass distribution. Participants emphasize the importance of including angular inertia and the effects of static friction on both driven and non-driven wheels, as well as the need to account for forces acting on the vehicle during acceleration. They clarify that while static friction at the wheel-road interface does not do work in a conventional sense, it is crucial for the vehicle's motion and acceleration. The conversation highlights the complexity of vehicle dynamics and the interplay between linear and rotational forces.
  • #101
I fixed up the Latex there. Just reply to this message to see what has changed.

"If we know that Torque = I * a, and so, that Force = Torque / r, then the why wouldn't it be correct for the first term to be ## \frac {T 2 I \alpha}{r} ##

And the second: ## \frac { 2 I \alpha}{r}##"
 
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  • #102
Saalz said:
2 * ( ( T_engine - ( I * a) ) / r ) - 2 * ( (I * a) / r ) - ( μ * m_vehicle * g ) - ( ( c_d * A_frontal * ρ_air * v^2 ) / 2 ) = m_vehicle * a
I strongly suggest using a simplified version with the equivalent mass (##m_e##) concept where:
$$F_{net} = m_e a$$
$$F_w - F_r - F_d = m_e a$$
$$F_w - C_{rr} mg - \frac{1}{2}\rho C_dAv^2 = m \left(1+\frac{4I}{mR^2}\right) a$$
$$a = \frac{\frac{F_w}{m} - C_{rr} g - \frac{1}{2}\rho\frac{C_dA}{m}v^2}{1+\frac{4I}{mR^2}}$$
Note that I use a coefficient of rolling resistance ##C_{rr}## instead of ##\mu## which usually represents the friction coefficient (not the same thing).

The force ##F_w## (sum from all driven wheels) is either the lesser between the maximum friction force available on all wheels (the normal force acting on each wheel is important here) OR the total power available over the speed of the vehicle (##F_w = \frac{P}{v}##), which is most likely. Using the total vehicle power available is less confusing than trying to identify how the torque is modified and split through the drivetrain.

The term in parenthesis for the equivalent mass represents the combined inertial effect of the vehicle mass ##m## and rotational inertia ##I## of 4 wheels. this term can be modified to include other rotational components from the brake system or drivetrain (more info here).

Saalz said:
If we know that Torque = I * a,
No, the torque is ##I\alpha## or ##I\frac{a}{R}##.
 
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  • #103
jack action said:
I strongly suggest using a simplified version with the equivalent mass (##m_e##) concept where:
$$F_{net} = m_e a$$
$$F_w - F_r - F_d = m_e a$$
$$F_w - C_{rr} mg - \frac{1}{2}\rho C_dAv^2 = m \left(1+\frac{4I}{mR^2}\right) a$$
$$a = \frac{\frac{F_w}{m} - C_{rr} g - \frac{1}{2}\rho\frac{C_dA}{m}v^2}{1+\frac{4I}{mR^2}}$$
Note that I use a coefficient of rolling resistance ##C_{rr}## instead of ##\mu## which usually represents the friction coefficient (not the same thing).

The force ##F_w## (sum from all driven wheels) is either the lesser between the maximum friction force available on all wheels (the normal force acting on each wheel is important here) OR the total power available over the speed of the vehicle (##F_w = \frac{P}{v}##), which is most likely. Using the total vehicle power available is less confusing than trying to identify how the torque is modified and split through the drivetrain.

The term in parenthesis for the equivalent mass represents the combined inertial effect of the vehicle mass ##m## and rotational inertia ##I## of 4 wheels. this term can be modified to include other rotational components from the brake system or drivetrain (more info here).No, the torque is ##I\alpha## or ##I\frac{a}{R}##.

Hi Jack,

I'm willing to use torque, to be fair. I've got the electric motor modeled. I have the torque curve across the whole RPM range of the electric motor that propels the vehicle and the drivetrain ratio, so I know the total torque available at the driven wheels.

In that case, I'll guess I could use the F_w in your expression as the total wheel torque available at a speed v, divided by the radius R of the wheels ( F_w = Torque / R ), right?
 
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