Arbitrariness of the surface involved in the displacement current

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the displacement current in the context of Ampere's Law and its application to a charging capacitor circuit. It highlights a paradox where the circulation of the magnetic field around a loop is non-zero despite the absence of charge current when considering surfaces not pierced by the wire. The introduction of the displacement current term resolves this issue by accounting for the electric field flux through the surface. The conversation explores the implications of using arbitrary surfaces, suggesting that both charge current and displacement current terms may be necessary for accurate descriptions. Ultimately, the conclusion is that in complex scenarios, both terms must be included to maintain consistency with Ampere's Law.
FranzDiCoccio
Messages
350
Reaction score
43
I was thinking of a standard, high school level discussion of the displacement current. The need for introducing this quantity is demonstrated by considering a circuit with a charging capacitor, and (for the sake of simplicity) a circular loop whose axis is along the (straight) wire carrying the current to one of the capacitor plates. There is no dielectric in the capacitor.
Using (again, for the sake of simplicity) Biot and Savart's law one shows that the circulation of the magnetic field around the loop is non zero, because the wire is carrying a current.

However, there seems to be a paradox with (standard) Ampere's Law. Indeed, the circulation of the magnetic field should be proportional to the charge current piercing any surface spanned by the loop. But this works only if one chooses a surface pierced by the wire. If, instead, one chooses surface "enclosing" the capacitor plate attached to the wire, there is no charge current.
Thus Ampere's law seems to "fail", because the circulation of the field is clearly non-zero.

This is solved by including a "displacement current" term in Ampere's law. This displacement current is proportional to the flux of the electric field through the surface. For the first surface, there is no electric field and hence no displacement current. For the second surface there is no current, but the flux of the electric field provides the displacement current.

In all of the discussions I've found, the surfaces are not entirely arbitrary, though. The "second" surface always entirely encloses the capacitor plate.
So I was wondering: "what if the second surface is still not pierced by the wire, but encloses only a portion of the plate?".
To make things more definite, think of this situation: S1 and S2 form the surface of a truncated cone. S1 is the circle enclosed by the loop, and it is also the "bottom lid" of the truncated cone. S2 is formed by the lateral surface and the top lid of the cone, which is between the capacitor plates.
This is basically described by this figure on the wikipedia page about the displacement current. In this case, S2 entirely encloses the capacitor plate.

Now think a surface S3 that is qualitatively similar to S2, but with a much smaller top lid, so that its lateral surface intersects the plate.
Since the flux through S3 is smaller than that through S2, there would be a displacement current but, unlike the previous case, it would be smaller than the charge current, and hence could not account for the entire circulation of the magnetic field by itself.

The only answer I could think of is that there should be a residual charge current flowing radially through the capacitor plate.
In other terms, the surface is not pierced by the wire, but by the plate which, in a way, also carries a charge current.
Hence in this case Ampere's law would have both terms, a current charge term and a displacement term.

Am I making any sense?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
FranzDiCoccio said:
Hence in this case Ampere's law would have both terms, a current charge term and a displacement term.
That is correct. Both terms are generally needed for a complete description. The “textbook” examples deliberately pick special surfaces that do one or the other, but arbitrary surfaces may need both.
 
Ok, and in the textbook example with the capacitor, the two terms would add up to the current charge in the wire alone, in order to give the same circulation along the loop, right?
 
This is from Griffiths' Electrodynamics, 3rd edition, page 352. I am trying to calculate the divergence of the Maxwell stress tensor. The tensor is given as ##T_{ij} =\epsilon_0 (E_iE_j-\frac 1 2 \delta_{ij} E^2)+\frac 1 {\mu_0}(B_iB_j-\frac 1 2 \delta_{ij} B^2)##. To make things easier, I just want to focus on the part with the electrical field, i.e. I want to find the divergence of ##E_{ij}=E_iE_j-\frac 1 2 \delta_{ij}E^2##. In matrix form, this tensor should look like this...
Thread 'Applying the Gauss (1835) formula for force between 2 parallel DC currents'
Please can anyone either:- (1) point me to a derivation of the perpendicular force (Fy) between two very long parallel wires carrying steady currents utilising the formula of Gauss for the force F along the line r between 2 charges? Or alternatively (2) point out where I have gone wrong in my method? I am having problems with calculating the direction and magnitude of the force as expected from modern (Biot-Savart-Maxwell-Lorentz) formula. Here is my method and results so far:- This...
Back
Top