Atwood's Machine: Finding Tension at A & D

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves an Atwood's machine scenario with a rope of uniform mass density passing over a fixed pipe. The original poster seeks to determine the tension at two specific points on the rope, A and D, while also calculating the tension ratio between points B and C.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to calculate the tension at points A and D, suggesting a ratio of tensions at points B and C. Some participants question the assumptions regarding tension at the ends of the rope and the role of friction in the setup.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively discussing the implications of the problem's setup, particularly the absence of tension at the ends of the rope and the potential for acceleration due to friction. There is a recognition of possible trick questions regarding the tension values sought.

Contextual Notes

There is ambiguity regarding the presence of friction, as the problem title mentions "wrapping friction" but the description does not clarify its effects. This raises questions about the static versus dynamic nature of the system.

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Homework Statement



A rope of uniform mass density is passed above the top of a fixed pipe of circular cross section.
Points B and C - the points where the rope loses contact with the pipe.
Points A and D - at the ends of the rope
The length of the segment AB = 2d
The length of the segment CD = d.

The magnitude of the force of tension at the point A - ?
The magnitude of the force of tension at the point D - ?

I have calculated the ratio: tension at the point B over tension at the point C = 2

The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
I thought tension at A = 2
tension at D = 1

Well, this is wrong. I am missing something.
It is somewhat similar to a simple Atwood machine, isn't it?
 

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There is no tension at the ends of the rope.
 
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Poetria said:
tension at the point B over tension at the point C = 2
As .Scott notes, there is no cause for tension at the rope ends, so I am not sure whether this is a trick question or you have misquoted it and actually want the tension ratio between B and C.
The description you give says nothing about friction. If there is no friction then there will surely be acceleration, so the tensions at B and C won't be the same as for a static arrangement. However, the image title mentions friction.
Please clarify.
 
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haruspex said:
As .Scott notes, there is no cause for tension at the rope ends, so I am not sure whether this is a trick question or you have misquoted it and actually want the tension ratio between B and C.
The description you give says nothing about friction. If there is no friction then there will surely be acceleration, so the tensions at B and C won't be the same as for a static arrangement. However, the image title mentions friction.
Please clarify.

Silly me! I got it.
"Wrapping friction" is a title of this problem. And there is no mention of friction afterwards.

There are three questions:
- about the magnitude of tension at the point A
- about the magnitude of tension at the point D
- about the ratio

So I see the first two are trick questions.
 
Poetria said:
So I see the first two are trick questions.
Then the last question is also... :smile:
 
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