Blackbody Radiation: Solving Introduction to Cosmology Eq. #25

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding equation #25 from Barbara Ryden's "Introduction to Cosmology," which describes the energy density of photons in a blackbody spectrum. Participants seek clarification on the equation's components, particularly the exponential term and its relation to familiar blackbody radiation equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the blackbody function and its notation, specifically the term exp(hf/kT).
  • Another participant clarifies that exp refers to the exponential function, indicating that it is e raised to the power of hf/kT.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between the energy density expression and the familiar blackbody radiation equation P_rad = σεAT^4, with some participants suggesting that integrating ε(f) df over all frequencies yields this equation.
  • One participant notes that the integration process is complex and involves expanding the exponential term as a geometric series and using the Riemann zeta function.
  • Another participant highlights that the constants σ and α are related but distinct, emphasizing that the integration in Ryden's context pertains to energy density rather than power.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relationship between the energy density and the blackbody radiation equation, but there is no consensus on the prerequisites needed to fully understand the material, as some express uncertainty about their background knowledge.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention that the integration of the energy density expression is not straightforward and requires familiarity with certain mathematical concepts, which may not be covered in all introductory physics texts.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students studying cosmology, blackbody radiation, or those seeking to understand the mathematical underpinnings of energy density in thermal radiation contexts.

4everphysics
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Hello. I am trying to study "Introduction to Cosmology" by Barbara Ryden,
but I am stuck with an equation from chapter two, and I have no idea how to figure out this. If you can suggest me a reading material or can explain the equation to me, that would be wonderful.

It is page 20 of the book, chapter 2, equation # 25.

It says:

The energy density of photons in the frequency range f -> f + df is given by the blackbody function

ε(f) df = ((8*∏*h)/(c^3)) ((f^3 * df)/(exp(hf/kT) -1))
and what is that exp?

then it goes...
The peak in the blackbody function occurs at hf_peak =(approx) 2.82kT. Integrated over all frequencies, equation #25 yields a total energy density for blackbody radiation of
ε_γ = α * T^4, ( I wrote "_" to mean subscript).
where
α = ((∏^2)/(15))((k^4)(h^3 * c^3)) <this h is actually h with the dash

the definition of 'α' and the equation#25 just came out of nowhere, and I am very clueless.
And they don't look anything like the blackbody equation that I know:
P_rad = σεAT^4 where ε is emissivity and σ is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant.

Thank you for your help..


Kyle Lee
 
Space news on Phys.org
4everphysics said:
Hello. I am trying to study "Introduction to Cosmology" by Barbara Ryden,
but I am stuck with an equation from chapter two, and I have no idea how to figure out this. If you can suggest me a reading material or can explain the equation to me, that would be wonderful.

It is page 20 of the book, chapter 2, equation # 25.

It says:

The energy density of photons in the frequency range f -> f + df is given by the blackbody function

ε(f) df = ((8*∏*h)/(c^3)) ((f^3 * df)/(exp(hf/kT) -1))
and what is that exp?
Exp is the exponential function, i.e. \exp ( h f/kT ) = e^{hf/kT}

then it goes...
The peak in the blackbody function occurs at hf_peak =(approx) 2.82kT. Integrated over all frequencies, equation #25 yields a total energy density for blackbody radiation of
ε_γ = α * T^4, ( I wrote "_" to mean subscript).
where
α = ((∏^2)/(15))((k^4)(h^3 * c^3)) <this h is actually h with the dash

the definition of 'α' and the equation#25 just came out of nowhere, and I am very clueless.
And they don't look anything like the blackbody equation that I know:
P_rad = σεAT^4 where ε is emissivity and σ is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant.

Thank you for your help..


Kyle Lee

The definition of constants can be a little confusing, but they're just that: constants. Emissivity is taken to be one (perfect black body, after all), so integrating over all frequencies you just get the expression Ryden quotes. You're welcome to do it yourself, if you like.

These are the most basic property of black bodies, have you studied them at all before? This should be pre-requisite knowledge for Ryden's book.
 
Thank you so much for your help.
I only have finished Halliday Resnick Walker's Fundamentals of Physics.
I am not sure if that is enough for the prereq? I sure have never seen
the energy density expression in HRW though..

so do you mean if I integrate the element "ε(f) df" over all the frequency,
I get the equation P_rad = σεAT^4?

Thank you for your help.
Sincerely
 
4everphysics said:
so do you mean if I integrate the element "ε(f) df" over all the frequency,
I get the equation P_rad = σεAT^4?


That's right. The integral is slightly involved, but you should be able to do it by expanding 1/(1-exp(-hf/kT)) (note the minus sign in the exponential, it's not a typo) as a geometric series, integrating each term of the series separately, and then you probably need to look up some value for the Riemann zeta function
 
4everphysics said:
Thank you so much for your help.
I only have finished Halliday Resnick Walker's Fundamentals of Physics.
I am not sure if that is enough for the prereq? I sure have never seen
the energy density expression in HRW though..

so do you mean if I integrate the element "ε(f) df" over all the frequency,
I get the equation P_rad = σεAT^4?

Thank you for your help.
Sincerely

It's important to note that the two constants \sigma and a are related, but not the same. Specifically, a= \frac{\sigma}{4 c}.

In Ryden, what she's using is the energy density integrated over all solid angles. A lot of the time we instead use the power per solid angle in a frequency interval instead, so it's easy to get confused here. So, you will not get the familiar expression P= \sigma T^4, since you're not integrating a power at all, but rather an energy density. But again, if you do the integral with the zeta functions and all, you will get all the right factors and reproduce Ryden's result.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
7K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
15K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
522