Boundary condition for electrostatics problem - found issue?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around an electrostatics problem involving boundary conditions and the scalar potential in a configuration with three different materials characterized by distinct permittivities. Participants explore the implications of continuity conditions on the electric field and displacement field at the boundaries.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a configuration with different permittivities and questions the implications of continuity conditions at the boundaries, leading to a potential contradiction regarding the equality of permittivities.
  • Another participant suggests that a smooth solution might exist that violates boundary conditions in a small region where the materials intersect, indicating that actual fields could vary based on the material structure.
  • A participant expresses concern about implementing numerical methods with differing permittivities, fearing an inconsistency in the system.
  • There is a suggestion to check for convergence of iterative solutions to determine stability in the numerical approach.
  • One participant discusses the potential ill-conditioning of the matrix in a finite differencing approach, which could affect convergence rates of iterative methods like GMRES.
  • A later reply proposes simply running a program to observe the outcomes of the numerical implementation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the boundary conditions and the behavior of numerical solutions. There is no consensus on how to resolve the apparent contradiction or the best approach to take in numerical methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the potential for inconsistencies in the mathematical formulation and numerical implementation, particularly regarding the conditioning of matrices and the behavior of solutions near material boundaries.

vogtster
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Hey everyone

Just a picture of my configuration.

YlCEu.png


The assumption here is $$\epsilon_a,\epsilon_b,\epsilon_c$$ are different from one another. Really the interest of this problem is to find the scalar potential $$\phi$$, such that $$\nabla^2 \phi = 0$$.

So now my question, about jump conditions,
Surface at $$y=0$$ has tangent $$\vec{E}$$ continous, thus
\begin{align}
-\hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_a = -\hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_b \\
-\hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_a = -\hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_c \\
\end{align}

However if we look at $$x=0$$ then normal $$\vec{D}$$ is continuous thus

\begin{align}
-\epsilon_b \hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_b = - \epsilon_c \hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_c \\
\end{align}

From our relation above this implies that $$\epsilon_b=\epsilon_c$$, which we made no such assumption. So this looks like a contradiction to me.

Can someone tell me where I have gone wrong?

Thank you!
 
Last edited:
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Mathematically, there is also the solution ##\hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_a = 0##.

There might a smooth solution that has a violation of the boundary conditions in an arbitrarily small region where the three materials cross, and the actual fields then will depend on the non-exact material structure there.
 
mfb said:
Mathematically, there is also the solution ##\hat{x} \cdot \nabla \phi_a = 0##.

There might a smooth solution that has a violation of the boundary conditions in an arbitrarily small region where the three materials cross, and the actual fields then will depend on the non-exact material structure there.

Hey mfb,

Thanks for the response. I guess I'm in the game of solving these problems by numerical methods. I suppose my worry right now is if I implement this with $$\epsilon_b \neq \epsilon_c$$, then there is an underlying inconsistency in the system. You know how I can get around this?
 
You can check if an iterative solution converges to something stable.
 
mfb said:
You can check if an iterative solution converges to something stable.

Hi mfb,

I do not believe it would converge, or at the very best converge slowly, the underlying assumption would be that the matrix is well conditioned. Let's assume we did some sort of finite differencing and obtained an $$Ax=b$$ system. This inconsistency in the equations, will cause $$A^{-1}$$ not to exist analytically. Thus numerically, $$A$$ will be ill-conditioned, so iterative linear methods will converge slowly in order to find a $$x$$ such that $$Ax=b$$. Do you think GMRES, would be the best hope to find something reasonable?
 
Last edited:
I would put it in a program and see what happens.
 

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