Calculate The Distance Where Atoms Start to Repel Each other

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the distance at which two atoms begin to repel each other due to electron interactions. The context includes theoretical considerations related to atomic structure and behavior, particularly in the framework of a sonoluminescence project.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the calculation of the distance at which electron repulsion prevents atoms from getting closer, suggesting that this distance may depend on atomic size and the number of protons and electrons.
  • Another participant argues that there is no fixed "minimum distance" between atoms, stating that the distance depends on the pressure applied, referencing the Lennard-Jones potential as a relevant model.
  • A question is raised regarding whether the discussion pertains to Coulomb repulsion or electron degeneracy pressure.
  • Clarifications are provided about the nature of Coulomb potential and electron degeneracy pressure, with one participant noting that Coulomb potential is felt at all distances, while electron degeneracy pressure relates to the occupation of quantum states by electrons.
  • One participant expresses a preference for focusing on Coulomb potential, suggesting it increases as atoms approach each other until repulsion prevents further compression.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit differing views on the nature of atomic interactions and the relevance of different potentials, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a consensus on the specifics of the calculations or models involved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to quantum mechanical methods for calculating parameters related to the Lennard-Jones potential, but does not resolve the mathematical steps or assumptions necessary for these calculations.

nst.john
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Is there a way to calculate how close two atoms can get before their electrons start to repel each other and prevent atoms from getting closer together. I'm guessing this is dependent on the size of the atom and it's number of protons and electrons. I am asking because I am working on a sonoluminescence project and papers say that a sonoluminescent bubble reaches minimum size when the atoms in the bubble cannot be compressed anymore due to electron repulsion. So what I want to know is exactly how far is each atom from each other where the electron repulsion will stop the bubble from compressing further. Thank you!
 
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There is no such thing as the "minimum distance". How close atoms will get to each other is a matter of a pressure applied. The higher the force pushing atoms to each other, the closer they get. Lennard-Jones potential (mentioned in most general chemistry books) describes this dependence. However, it requires two parameters - I guess they can be calculated using QM methods.
 
Are you talking about coulomb repulsion or Electron degeneracy?
 
What's the difference between the two?
 
And I'll look into the Lennard-Jones potential.
 
nst.john said:
What's the difference between the two?
Coulomb potential is felt at all distances. Electron degeneracy pressure is what keeps two electrons occupying the same state
 
I'm guessing coulumb potential because it sounds like it would increase as two atoms got closer to each other, until it gets too great that they cannot get closer with the force applied due to electron repulsion
 

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