Calculating albedo and eccentricity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the albedo and eccentricity of Earth in relation to its temperature and habitability zone around different types of stars. Participants explore equations related to thermal equilibrium, the greenhouse effect, and the implications of eccentricity on temperature extremes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Post 1 presents a three-part question involving the calculation of Earth's equilibrium temperature with a given albedo, the effect of eccentricity on temperature extremes, and the habitability zone around a lower mass star.
  • Participants discuss the formula for temperature extremes based on distance from the Sun, albedo, and greenhouse correction factors.
  • Post 2 suggests that the original poster should plug in numbers into the provided formula and emphasizes the need for a correction factor to reconcile calculated distances with actual distances from the Sun.
  • Post 3 seeks clarification on the term "prefactor" and attempts to derive a value for it, leading to a calculation that results in a negative value, which raises further questions.
  • Post 4 implies that a definition of the correction factor is necessary for clarity in the calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct approach to calculating the correction factor or the implications of their calculations. There are multiple competing views on how to interpret the equations and the role of the correction factor.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the correction factor and its application across different scenarios. The discussion also highlights unresolved mathematical steps and dependencies on definitions that are not fully clarified.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students or enthusiasts interested in planetary science, astrophysics, and the mathematical modeling of temperature and habitability in relation to celestial mechanics.

Chief17
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I have a three part question:

Background: For a planet on an orbit with semi-major axis a and eccentricity e, the distance of closest approach to the Sun is r = a(1 − e) and the farthest approach is r = a(1 + e).

(1) Assuming an albedo A = 0.2, estimate the temperature on Earth in equilibrium with irradiation from
the Sun. Estimate the correction factor necessary due to the greenhouse effect to bring us up to a balmy 300 K.

I don't know what to do.

(2) Assuming that this correction factor does not change, how large an eccentricity could the Earth have before the temperature extremes reach the point where the Earth reaches either boiling or freezing point?

Freezing:

Based off the equation T=T⊙((1-A)/4)^0.25(R⊙/r)^0.5,

273.15=5778((1-0.2)/4)^0.25(6.96*10^8/r)^0.5

0.005=(6.96/r)

r=1.39*10^11

Boiling:

373.15=5778((1-0.2)/4)^0.25(6.96*10^8/r)^0.5

r=7.46*10^10

These both seem reasonable to me except for one thing. The actual distance from the Sun to the Earth is 1.5*10^11. This means that the Earth is actually farther than the distance I calculated for the boiling part, which doesn't make sense.

Is this the equation I should use, and is the work (and answer) correct? Or did I do something wrong?

(3) If we define habitability as having a level of irradiation between these two extremes, consider the
habitable zone around a lower mass star. Assuming circular orbits again, and the same greenhouse correction factor as above, where is the habitable zone around a 0.5M⊙ star, which has radius 0.5R⊙ and effective temperature 3700 K?


Not sure where exactly to get started here.

Do I use the equations

L=4*pi*R⊙^2*stefan-boltzmann constant*T⊙^4
Labs=((R⊙^2*stefan-boltzmann constant*T⊙^4*pi*R^2)/r^2)(1-A)?

Not sure where the mass of the star fits in here.
 
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(1): You have the formula in (2), you just have to plug in numbers for the first part. And then find out which prefactor you need in the equation to get the actual average temperature.

Chief17 said:
The actual distance from the Sun to the Earth is 1.5*10^11. This means that the Earth is actually farther than the distance I calculated for the boiling part, which doesn't make sense.
That comes from correction factor you have to include.

(3): right
Chief17 said:
Not sure where the mass of the star fits in here.
You don't need it.
 
Thanks for the reply.

mfb said:
And then find out which prefactor you need in the equation to get the actual average temperature.

Not sure what you mean by prefactor. Would I just multiply the albedo times a value (i.e. x) and then solve for x? So:

300=5778((1-0.2x)/4)^0.25(6.96*10^8/(1.5*10^11))^0.5

----> x=-1.75
 
I'm sure you have a definition of the correction factor somewhere.
 

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