Can Charge Flow in an Open Circuit?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of whether charge can flow in an open circuit, particularly in contexts such as grounding and the operation of Leyden jars. Participants explore the implications of potential differences, grounding, and the nature of current flow in various scenarios, including lightning and capacitors.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that charge can flow in an open circuit due to a positive potential difference between the charge source and a conductive body, leading to current flow without a return path.
  • Another participant argues that current cannot flow without a complete path, indicating that there are often less obvious paths, such as through the Earth or across the dielectric in a Leyden jar.
  • A third participant emphasizes that grounded circuits require a return path for charge balance, particularly in electrochemical reactions within batteries or when using electromagnetic induction.
  • One participant raises the example of lightning to question the necessity of a return loop, suggesting that high potential differences and conductors can facilitate charge movement without a traditional return path.
  • Further discussion on Leyden jars indicates that they can be charged without a direct return loop, as they can be connected to an electrostatic generator, leading to temporary current flow.
  • Concerns are raised about the practicality of charge returning through air in certain experimental setups, suggesting that arcing would be visible if significant charge were to traverse large distances through air.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of a return path for charge flow, with some asserting that it is essential while others provide examples where charge movement occurs without a clear return path. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various assumptions regarding the nature of current flow, grounding, and the behavior of capacitors, but these assumptions are not universally accepted or clarified, leaving some points open to interpretation.

Noesis
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I've always wondered why is it possible for charge to flow in an open circuit, e.g., when a terminal is connected to a grounded pole, a large metal chassis, or say a water pipe.

I've assumed that it's because there is a positive potential difference between where the charge is and the large conductive body, and so its potential energy is dissipated in moving towards the conductive body which thus creates current.

The circuit can remain open, with no return path, since there is no charge buildup as there would be on say a parallel plate capacitor.

Are these thoughts correct? Any further insight into the matter? I noticed that it seems that this is how Leyden Jars were originally charged, the outer foil on the jar had no return path. Please let me know if I'm wrong regarding this as well.
 
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Current doesn't flow without a path
It's just that sometimes the path isn't obvious.
There is a path through the Earth from a grounded pole, on a Leyden jar there is a path across the glass or through the air.
 
The Layden Jar is a capacitor.

The grounded circuits don't work without a return path. If you are using a battery as a voltage source, the reaction inside the battery cannot occur unless there is charge balance in the electrochemica reaction.

If you are using a change in magnetic flux as your emf, then the wire cannot simply give away charges without getting the charge back. Okay, maybe a few electrons can get out but the coulombic attraction will become large very quickly, and the wire will stay approximatelly neutral.
 
Well how would we explain say lightning, where is no apparent return loop? Or when a circuit is grounded to Earth in case of an overabundance of current, and the charge will indeed travel to the ground. There doesn't seem to be a return loop in either example, and it seems that what makes both events occur is the high potential difference and the presence conductor on the other side.

Regarding a Leyden jar: it is seemingly charged without a return loop, that is the capacitor's plates are not put across a battery. The original jar was connected to an electrostatic generator at the top and then charged by it, hence current temporarily existed (within its RC time constant I imagine) before the capacitor was charged. Again, how can charge ever flow without a return path?

This, IMO, http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-build-leyden-jar-and-use-capacitor-272817/" regarding capacitors also made me question this. You can watch the video, or fast forward until ~3:50 for the construction of a miniature Leyden Jar, and at ~4:37 he comments that he will connect the red wire to a faucet.

There is no way that charge is returning to the yellow wire in the video as it would have to traverse relatively enormous quantities of air, and arcing would be very visible.
 
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