Can electrolysis provide buoyancy to submerged machines?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of using electrolysis to generate gas for buoyancy in a submerged machine, with a focus on the practical implications and safety concerns of such an approach. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of electrolysis, buoyancy, and alternative methods for achieving lift underwater.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the possibility of using electrolysis to lift a 10lbs machine by generating gas from water.
  • Another participant notes that even a small volume of gas can provide lift if the machine is balanced at a given depth, but highlights the challenges of high pressure and the energy requirements for gas production.
  • Some participants assert that electrolysis can indeed produce hydrogen and oxygen gas to lift the machine, while cautioning about the explosive nature of the gas mixture.
  • Concerns are raised about the electrolysis of salt water potentially producing chlorine and sodium hydroxide instead of the desired gases.
  • Alternative methods are suggested, such as using compressed gas and valves, which may be more practical than relying solely on electrolysis.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the safety of using electrolysis for this purpose, likening it to creating a bomb.
  • Another participant discusses the need for large amounts of electricity to produce sufficient gas and questions the efficiency of the electrolysis method compared to other buoyancy systems.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the feasibility and safety of using electrolysis for buoyancy. While some believe it is possible, others raise significant concerns about practicality and safety, indicating that multiple competing views remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for large currents and the time required for electrolysis, as well as the potential hazards associated with gas production. The discussion does not resolve the technical and safety challenges involved in using electrolysis for buoyancy.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals exploring underwater robotics, electrolysis applications, buoyancy systems, and safety considerations in experimental designs.

Skeezer
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I am looking at building a machine that roams underwater, most always completely submerged. I would like at one point for the device to return to the surface and was wondering if it is possible to use electrolysis to turn the water into gas enough to provide buoyancy that would lift the machine out of the water?

I have ran a few buoyancy equations and the machine will weigh in just under 10lbs. I would like to know if this is even possible, and if anyone can tell me the amount of O and H are needed to raise the 10lbs object.

Thank you for your time!
 
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This is more of the phys101 combined with chem101 than electrical engineering.

It doesn't matter what is the machine weight, as long as it is balanced at a given depth even a tiny volume of gas will start to pull it up.

What is difficult here is the fact that you are potentially working at high pressures (so the gas produced is compressed) and that producing even small volumes of the gas requires quite large charge (large current or long time). This can be easily calculated from the Faraday's law of electrolysis.
 
Yes. it is possible to lift the machine using electrolysis of the water. Just put two electrodes in water and supply it with DC. The electrodes will split the water into hydrogen and oxygen gas. However, this mixdure is higly explosive. If you by accident ignite one litre of this gas mixdure, especially if it is salt water sparks can occour, it will probably blow your machine into pieces. So be careful.Vidar
 
Electrolysis of salt water introduces another issue. Instead of hydrogen and oxygen, you may get chlorine and sodium hydroxide.
 
Hello Skeezer - yes it is possible - yes, it is pracitcal seems to be the questions. Mostly due to the energy needed to generate the gas, vs having a small container of compressed gas, that a valve can release?
 
Thanks for the wealth of information! Windadct, I am open to other ideas, I am actually just currently researching the best way to do this now, and this was one of my thoughts.
 
sarcasm? I'm ok if so, but not sure...cheers,
 
Not at all. The first sentence was to everyone, but yes I really am open to other thoughts.
 
Skeezer said:
Thanks for the wealth of information! Windadct, I am open to other ideas, I am actually just currently researching the best way to do this now, and this was one of my thoughts.

It would seem that doing it the way regular submarines do it would be the most effective and safest, IMO. Use a small electrical pump to manage moving air back and forth between external bladders and an internal compressed air storage tank... Oh, and include an emergency ballast release system, I would think. :smile:
 
  • #10
As low-Q said, I see electrolosis as a great way to make a floating (or not floating) bomb. Very very unsafe.
 
  • #11
That's a non issue. You can separate cells and produce not a mixture, but isolated gases.

But you will still need large amounts of electricity. Assuming you have enough voltage 1 Ah produces below 1 L of gases at STP (and takes a long time, unless you can use high currents). How much do you need to open a valve - 1 mAh? How long does it take, few ms?
 
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