Chain rule and Kinematic quantities x,v,a

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around kinematic quantities such as position, velocity, and acceleration, specifically exploring how to express velocity and acceleration as functions of position (v(x) and a(x)). Participants examine the implications of the chain rule in this context and consider the relationships between distance, time, and speed in relation to force.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant introduces the idea of expressing velocity and acceleration as functions of position and suggests that the chain rule is necessary for this transformation.
  • Another participant notes that if the position function x(t) meets certain constraints, it can be inverted to find time as a function of position, which allows for the derivation of velocity as a function of position.
  • A question is raised about the conditions under which a function is invertible, with a reference to the inverse function theorem provided by another participant.
  • There is a discussion about whether acceleration should be expressed as a function of both position and time (a(x,t)) or just as a function of time (a(t)) or position (a(x)), given that the object occupies different positions at different times.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the conditions for function invertibility and the appropriate representation of acceleration and velocity as functions of position and time. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to express these relationships.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention constraints necessary for function invertibility and the implications of these constraints on the relationships between kinematic quantities. However, specific mathematical steps or assumptions underlying these discussions are not fully resolved.

fog37
Messages
1,566
Reaction score
108
Hello Forum,

I have a couple of kinematics questions.

The position of a point object is given by the position vector x(t). Speed is v(t)=dx(t)/dt and the acceleration a(t)= dv(t)/dt. What if we wanted to know the velocity and/or the acceleration as a function of position, i.e v(x) or a(x)?

For example, given x(t)=3t^2+2, how would we find v(x) and a(x)? I think the chain rule is needed. The chain rule is a a formula for computing the derivative of the composition of two or more functions.

What if we were given v(x) from the beginning, for example v(x) = 3x +x^2, and wanted to know the position x(t) or a(t) for the object?

A generic force F can be a function of several independent variables, F(x, t, v):
  • distance x
  • time t
  • speed v
Are these three independent variables associated to a hypothetical object to which the force F is applied? Since F=ma, then the acceleration a(x, t , v)

If the acceleration varies with time t, then the acceleration should also automatically be a function of distance x, since the object occupies different positions x at different times t. So does it make sense to write a(x,t) or should we just write a(t) or a(x)? Same goes for v(x,t): if the object occupies different positions at different times it also means its speed is a function of time...

Thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
fog37 said:
What if we wanted to know the velocity and/or the acceleration as a function of position, i.e v(x) or a(x)?
Obviously, if x(t) fulfills some constraints (for example that you do not drive in circles), you can invert it and find t=f(x). Then v(t) = v(f(x)) etc. But v(t) is still dx(t)/dt, so v(f(x)) = \frac{1}{\frac{dt}{dx}} - which gives you another clue: If you stand still, you cannot create t=f(x).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: fog37
thanks!

So a function is usually invertible when it has some contraints?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 49 ·
2
Replies
49
Views
4K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K