Classical explanation of Photodissociation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the classical explanation of photodissociation and the mechanisms by which an atom can absorb the energy of an incident photon without undergoing ionization. Participants explore the energy transfer processes involved and the implications of photon absorption on atomic states, while seeking a non-quantum mechanical understanding of the phenomenon.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about how an atom absorbs photon energy without ionization, questioning what the energy is transformed into and which part of the atom absorbs it.
  • One participant describes the hydrogen atom's behavior, noting that if a photon with energy less than 13.6 eV is absorbed, the electron moves to a higher orbit without ionization, while a photon with more energy would result in ionization.
  • Another participant suggests that energy absorption can lead to various excited states, including higher-energy bound states or ionization, but emphasizes that the specific outcomes depend on the amount of energy absorbed.
  • A participant argues that discussing energy transfer in photon absorption is complex, suggesting that the results can vary widely based on the energy involved, and questions the classical framework for explaining photon interactions.
  • One participant notes the challenge of providing a classical explanation, stating that the concept of a photon moves the discussion beyond classical physics and that the mechanisms of electron stability and energy absorption remain unclear.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of a classical explanation for photon absorption and the nature of energy transfer. There is no consensus on the mechanisms involved or the implications of photon energy absorption.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the reliance on classical descriptions, which may not adequately capture the complexities of photon interactions and energy states. The discussion also highlights unresolved questions about electron stability and the energy requirements for photon absorption.

Justin Hawk
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Can someone explain to me how an atom can absorb the energy of an incident photon without being ionised? What is the photon energy transformed into and how is it transferred between the photon and the atom (what part of the atom absorbs the energy?). I can't find anything helpful online - the resources I've managed to find are either too simplistic or far too complex. I'm hoping that this can be explained without a quantum mechanical treatment? I appreciate any help.
 
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Justin Hawk said:
Can someone explain to me how an atom can absorb the energy of an incident photon without being ionised? What is the photon energy transformed into and how is it transferred between the photon and the atom (what part of the atom absorbs the energy?). I can't find anything helpful online - the resources I've managed to find are either too simplistic or far too complex. I'm hoping that this can be explained without a quantum mechanical treatment? I appreciate any help.

Let's take the hydrogen atom for the sake of simplicity. Say the atom isn't excited and thus the electron is on the first orbit. The electron needs about 13.6 eV to leave the atom. So if you "fire" a photon with less energy on the atom and the electron absorb it, the electron will just move to a further orbit (then the atom is excited and I think the electron will move to the first orbit again, emiting another photon in the process of changing of orbit). The atom in this case isn't ionized. However if you "fire" a photon with more than 13.6 eV and that the electron absorbs it, it will leave the atom and thus the atom will be ionized.

Since photons carry momentum, the atom, after absorbption of the photon will be left with a different momentum than before the absorbption.

I am not sure what would happen if a nucleous would absorb a photon though. My guess is that it will transfer momentum to the atom and nothing else special would occur, but I'll let experimented people talk. :)
 
An atom or a molecule can absorb energy, from a photon or from an electron or another atom or molecule, and be left in an excited state. Depending on how much energy is absorbed, that excited state could be a higher-energy bound state (electronic or vibrational or rotational), an ionized atom, or a disassociated molecule.

You can think of it as you absorbing energy from, say, the springs of a trampoline, and using it to rise up in the air; energy hasn't been created or destroyed, it's all still there but in a different form. Now you can fall back and transfer your gravitational potential energy back into spring energy, or into biological disassociative energy and heat if you splatter on the ground.

It doesn't make sense to talk about "how" the energy is transferred in a photon absorption, or what part of an atom absorbs energy - given an amount of absorbed energy, the result can be a variety of different excited states of the atom or molecule as a whole.
 
Once you say "photon" you've left the classical world, so it will be difficult to find a classical explanation. About the best you can say classically is that there are, for unknown reasons, stable configurations of electrons and protons and that the electrons can be shaken loose with electromagnetic waves. How much energy is required from the incident wave is unknown (because how the electrons maintain a stable state is also unknown). To get to a "photon" of energy classically requires unrealistically strong em waves.
 

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