Coarse Graining and the Second Law of Thermodynamics

In summary, the conversation is about a question regarding the second law of statistical physics. The person is confused about the idea of coarse graining and how it relates to the increase of entropy. They mention a derivation for Liovilles equation and the concept of averaging the density of phase space over a fixed local scale. The question is about how this coarse graining can lead to an increase in entropy, and how it relates to the second law. Another person responds by stating that the increase in entropy would only happen if the particles were actually spread out, but by just averaging the density, the actual entropy does not increase.
  • #1
Fraser
3
0
Hi all, first post so be nice :)

I'm currently taking a statistical physics course and I am very confused about an aspect relating to the second law.

Currently we are considering a member of an ensemble to be represented by a moving point in phase space (a 6N dimensional space spanned by Pi and qi from Hamiltonian). My notes for this show that a point in this space represents a microstate of the assembly. I can just about accept this.

I have been presented with a full derivation for Liovilles equation (which I follow) and this has shown that the density of representative points are constant with time. From the classical definition of Gibbs Entropy this leads to the entropy change with time equal to 0. I follow the maths for this ok, which is fine.

What I don't understand is the idea of coarse graining that follows this. My notes say that by averaging the density of phase space over a fixed local scale we can increase S. But why is this? Surely all we have done is 'drop' some information about the ensemble and therefore force S to increase? But how is this right? How can we just forget about some particles and therefore say the entropy has increased? Surely this means that we CAN'T consider particles as an incompressible fluid since the second law isn't obeyed when we do this?

Thanks in advance,

Fraser
 
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  • #2
I think it is saying that IF the particles were all spread out, the entropy would increase. If you just average the density then the actual entropy isn't increasing, but it would if that actually happened. Thats what it looks like to me at least.
 

1. What is coarse graining in the context of thermodynamics?

Coarse graining is a method used in thermodynamics to simplify complex systems by grouping together multiple particles or variables into larger entities. This allows for a more manageable analysis of the system while still retaining important information about its behavior.

2. Why is coarse graining important in understanding the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the total entropy of a closed system will always increase over time. Coarse graining helps us understand this law by allowing us to focus on the macroscopic behavior of a system, rather than the microscopic details of each individual particle. This macroscopic approach is essential in studying the overall trends of entropy in a system.

3. How does coarse graining help us reconcile the apparent contradiction between the Second Law and the reversible nature of microscopic laws?

Microscopic laws, such as Newton's laws of motion, are reversible and do not have a preferred direction of time. However, the Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the entropy of a closed system will always increase. Coarse graining helps us understand this apparent contradiction by showing that while microscopic laws may be reversible, macroscopic behavior is not. Coarse graining allows us to focus on the overall trend of entropy in a system, which always increases over time.

4. Can coarse graining be applied to all thermodynamic systems?

Yes, coarse graining can be applied to all thermodynamic systems, regardless of their size or complexity. It is a versatile method that can be used to simplify any system and make it more manageable for analysis.

5. Are there any limitations to coarse graining in the context of thermodynamics?

While coarse graining is a useful method in understanding the Second Law of Thermodynamics, it is not a perfect approach. One limitation is that it may oversimplify a system and overlook important details that could affect its behavior. Additionally, coarse graining is often subjective and relies on the researcher's choice of what variables or particles to group together, which can lead to different interpretations and results.

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