Computing Copper Loss: Examples & Reduction Strategies

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the computation of copper loss in electrical systems, particularly in manufacturing plants and department malls. Participants seek examples and methods for calculating these losses, as well as strategies for reducing them, such as using larger wires and installing capacitors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the computation of copper loss and requests examples from practical applications.
  • Another participant explains that copper loss is calculated using the formula P = I²R, noting that larger wires can reduce resistance but introduces the concept of the "skin effect" in AC current, which may complicate this reduction.
  • A question is posed regarding the estimated percentage of copper loss in a manufacturing plant and whether installing capacitors could reduce demand at the meter by eliminating copper loss.
  • A response confirms that capacitors can reduce reactive current in inductive loads, thus potentially lowering copper losses, but clarifies that power meters measure real power, not reactive power.
  • Another participant provides a method for calculating copper losses in specific applications, such as flat busbars and transformers, emphasizing the importance of considering factors like current density and heat dissipation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the effectiveness of larger wires in reducing copper loss, with some acknowledging the skin effect as a complicating factor. There is no consensus on the percentage of copper loss in manufacturing plants or the impact of capacitors on overall demand.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention specific calculations and considerations for different applications, highlighting that assumptions about current density and heat dissipation are crucial for accurate assessments. There are references to tables for guidance, but these are not detailed in the discussion.

energysaver
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Good day. just want to ask anyone about copper loss. How is it computed for example in a manufacturing plant or in a dept mall.Could anyone give an illustration/example?

Also , is it true that copper loss can be reduced by using big wires?What if the wire is big enough?

thank you. hope you can help me...
 
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energysaver said:
Good day. just want to ask anyone about copper loss. How is it computed for example in a manufacturing plant or in a dept mall.Could anyone give an illustration/example?

Also , is it true that copper loss can be reduced by using big wires?What if the wire is big enough?

thank you. hope you can help me...
Copper loss is the power lost because of the resistance in the wires. P = I2R.

Big wires have less resistance, but with AC current there is such a thing as the "skin effect", which means that most of the current is concentrated around the surface of the conductor, lowering the effective cross sectional area of the conductor and increasing its resistance.
 
what estimated percentage of a copper loss in a certain manufacturing plant? if i install capacitors in loads , would the demand at the meter be reduced by 10% by eliminating copper loss?...

thank you...
 
You are correct. If you have an inductive load (induction motor, for example) with a poor power factor, a capacitor could reduce the reactive current and the resultant current demand at the meter. Power meters usually measure only real power, and not reactive power, however, so as you point out, only the extra I2R losses in the copper are reduced.

Bob S
 
Hello

as our colleagues says in the above replies , copper losses is equivalent to I^2 X R

but what type of application are you going to calculate copper losses for ??

for example , if you are going to calculate copper losses for a flat busbar just calculate the resistance by knowing the cross sectional area of the bar and its length and the grade of copper you are using and then calculate it by resistivity x length divided by area then multiply the result by the current squared

but if you need to calculate this losses for temperature rise or when considering the heat effect for a transformer as an example then take into your consideration the current density , and the heat dissipation to the surrounding , and there are specific tables which can guide you to select the value of the current density in the first place as if you only looks at the value of the losses , it will not give you good indication for temperature rise

hope information was useful for you
 

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