I Computing the capacitance of a strange material

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on computing the capacitance of a 2D quarter annulus material subjected to thermal perturbations, which creates a complex electrostatic potential field with charge separation. Despite the net charge being zero along the electrodes, charge builds up differently across the material's boundaries, raising questions about capacitance calculations. The participants suggest that traditional capacitance cannot be defined in a purely 2D context without assigning non-zero radii to the electrodes, effectively treating them as cylindrical. An alternative capacitance, denoted as C', is proposed, linking temperature differences (ΔT) to the energy stored in the electric field (U_E), rather than voltage differences (ΔV). This approach indicates that the behavior of C' may differ from conventional capacitance in electrical circuits.
fluidistic
Gold Member
Messages
3,928
Reaction score
272
I have a 2D material which has the shape of a quarter annulus. That is, in polar coordinates ##(r, \theta)##, ##\theta## ranges from ##0## to ##\pi/2## and ##r## ranges from ##r_i## to ##r_o##. When I apply a thermal perturbation to the material, i.e. when I keep the inner and outer curved boundaries at different temperatures (corresponding to the curves at ##r=r_i## and ##r=r_o##), a rather complicated electrostatics potential field setups. None of the boundaries of the material are at a same potential. This electrostatics field creates a charge separation. If we consider that we have electrodes at the inner and outer boundaries (where the temperature is fixed), then each electrode would have 0 net charge, although along them there is a charge separation. From ##\theta \in [0,\pi/4]##, a net charge ##-q## builds up, while for the rest of the curve, that is, ##\theta \in [\pi/4,\pi/2]## a charge ##+q## builds up.

If I were to use this material in a circuit, I guess it would have a capacitance ##C##. How would I compute it? Would it be 0 because the net charge along those curve vanishes? Then choosing the electrodes to be at the ##\theta=0## and ##\theta=\pi/2## curves would fix this, in that the charge wouldn't be 0. But there is an additional feature, is that if this material is placed in an electric circuit, then the electrostatics potential field might greatly differ from the one I obtained in this open circuit. Would ##C## change? Or is this computed only in open circuit conditions?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
fluidistic said:
I have a 2D material which has the shape of a quarter annulus.
You want to know the capacitance between two filamentary arcs. The voltage gradient close to the filaments will be infinite because they have a radius of zero.

Since in 2D, you allow no third dimension, there will be either no area, or no separation, so you cannot calculate a capacitance.

You will need to assign non-zero radii to the two filaments, making them cylinders.
 
I will post later a picture. I can define a distance between 2 boundaries where opposite charges are present. The problem being the electroststics potential being non constsnt there. However I might define.a sort of unusual capacitance, where instead of a ΔV, a ΔT creates the charge separation. There is a direct link beteen the 2 and no ambiguity as to what each vsriable mean. The question is whetger this C behaves as the usual C in a circuit or not.

More details to come.
 
Here are V and ##\vec E##, followed by a picture of the charge distribution.
V_and_E_quarter_annulus.png
Q_quarter_annulus.png


While the material is in 2D, its ##\vec E## field extends in 3D. It contains energy, so there's a direct relationship between the energy stored in the ##\vec E## field and ##\Delta T## which generates this charge separation. So I can define a sort of capacitance ##C'## that possesses different units than the usual one, and links ##\Delta T## to ##U_E## rather than ##\Delta V## to ##U_E##.
 
Last edited:
This is from Griffiths' Electrodynamics, 3rd edition, page 352. I am trying to calculate the divergence of the Maxwell stress tensor. The tensor is given as ##T_{ij} =\epsilon_0 (E_iE_j-\frac 1 2 \delta_{ij} E^2)+\frac 1 {\mu_0}(B_iB_j-\frac 1 2 \delta_{ij} B^2)##. To make things easier, I just want to focus on the part with the electrical field, i.e. I want to find the divergence of ##E_{ij}=E_iE_j-\frac 1 2 \delta_{ij}E^2##. In matrix form, this tensor should look like this...
Thread 'Applying the Gauss (1835) formula for force between 2 parallel DC currents'
Please can anyone either:- (1) point me to a derivation of the perpendicular force (Fy) between two very long parallel wires carrying steady currents utilising the formula of Gauss for the force F along the line r between 2 charges? Or alternatively (2) point out where I have gone wrong in my method? I am having problems with calculating the direction and magnitude of the force as expected from modern (Biot-Savart-Maxwell-Lorentz) formula. Here is my method and results so far:- This...
Back
Top