Computing the capacitance of a strange material

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around computing the capacitance of a 2D material shaped like a quarter annulus, particularly under the influence of thermal perturbations and varying electrostatic potentials. Participants explore the implications of charge separation due to temperature differences and how this affects capacitance in both open circuit and circuit conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the charge separation occurring along the boundaries of the quarter annulus due to thermal perturbations and questions how to compute the capacitance given that the net charge along the electrodes is zero.
  • Another participant argues that in 2D, the concept of capacitance may not apply as there is no area or separation without assigning non-zero radii to the filaments, suggesting that they must be treated as cylinders.
  • A later post introduces the idea of defining a capacitance based on temperature differences (ΔT) rather than voltage differences (ΔV), proposing a unique relationship between charge separation and thermal energy.
  • Another participant expands on this by suggesting a different capacitance (C') that relates ΔT to the energy stored in the electric field (U_E), indicating that this capacitance may have different units than conventional capacitance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of capacitance in a purely 2D context, with some suggesting that traditional definitions may not hold, while others propose alternative formulations based on thermal effects. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on how to approach the problem.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the geometry and dimensionality of the material, as well as the definitions of capacitance being discussed. The relationship between thermal perturbations and electrostatic potentials is also not fully resolved.

fluidistic
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I have a 2D material which has the shape of a quarter annulus. That is, in polar coordinates ##(r, \theta)##, ##\theta## ranges from ##0## to ##\pi/2## and ##r## ranges from ##r_i## to ##r_o##. When I apply a thermal perturbation to the material, i.e. when I keep the inner and outer curved boundaries at different temperatures (corresponding to the curves at ##r=r_i## and ##r=r_o##), a rather complicated electrostatics potential field setups. None of the boundaries of the material are at a same potential. This electrostatics field creates a charge separation. If we consider that we have electrodes at the inner and outer boundaries (where the temperature is fixed), then each electrode would have 0 net charge, although along them there is a charge separation. From ##\theta \in [0,\pi/4]##, a net charge ##-q## builds up, while for the rest of the curve, that is, ##\theta \in [\pi/4,\pi/2]## a charge ##+q## builds up.

If I were to use this material in a circuit, I guess it would have a capacitance ##C##. How would I compute it? Would it be 0 because the net charge along those curve vanishes? Then choosing the electrodes to be at the ##\theta=0## and ##\theta=\pi/2## curves would fix this, in that the charge wouldn't be 0. But there is an additional feature, is that if this material is placed in an electric circuit, then the electrostatics potential field might greatly differ from the one I obtained in this open circuit. Would ##C## change? Or is this computed only in open circuit conditions?
 
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fluidistic said:
I have a 2D material which has the shape of a quarter annulus.
You want to know the capacitance between two filamentary arcs. The voltage gradient close to the filaments will be infinite because they have a radius of zero.

Since in 2D, you allow no third dimension, there will be either no area, or no separation, so you cannot calculate a capacitance.

You will need to assign non-zero radii to the two filaments, making them cylinders.
 
I will post later a picture. I can define a distance between 2 boundaries where opposite charges are present. The problem being the electroststics potential being non constsnt there. However I might define.a sort of unusual capacitance, where instead of a ΔV, a ΔT creates the charge separation. There is a direct link beteen the 2 and no ambiguity as to what each vsriable mean. The question is whetger this C behaves as the usual C in a circuit or not.

More details to come.
 
Here are V and ##\vec E##, followed by a picture of the charge distribution.
V_and_E_quarter_annulus.png
Q_quarter_annulus.png


While the material is in 2D, its ##\vec E## field extends in 3D. It contains energy, so there's a direct relationship between the energy stored in the ##\vec E## field and ##\Delta T## which generates this charge separation. So I can define a sort of capacitance ##C'## that possesses different units than the usual one, and links ##\Delta T## to ##U_E## rather than ##\Delta V## to ##U_E##.
 
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