Conservation of energy derived from Newton's Laws?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on deriving the conservation of energy from Newton's Laws, specifically using gravitational potential energy and kinetic energy. The student is uncertain about which equations are permissible, contemplating the use of F=ma, work-energy principles, and kinematic equations. They demonstrate a method to relate work done to changes in kinetic energy, indicating that additional equations beyond F=ma are necessary. The conversation also touches on the relationship between Newton's third law and momentum conservation, suggesting that changes in motion lead to the conclusion that energy is conserved. Overall, the thread emphasizes the connection between Newton's Laws and the principles of energy conservation in physics.
n0083
Messages
8
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



"Show how conservation of energy (with only gravitational potential energy and kinetic energy) can be gotten from Newton's Laws.

This was the question that was asked of me, and sorry for the wording not being terribly precise.

Homework Equations



I am not exactly sure which equations are allowed and which aren't.
I assume F=ma, but i am not sure about Fg = GmM/r^2, W=Fd, or kinematic equations.

By Newton's Laws do they mean more than the "three laws"?

The student had not studied calculus yet.

The Attempt at a Solution



For instance, if using (i) F=ma, (ii) vf^2=vo^2+2ad, and (iii) W=Fd, we can do the following:
i&ii) Fd = m(vf^2 - vo^2)/2 ==> Fd = (1/2)*m*vf^2 - (1/2)*m*vi^2
iii&previous) W = (1/2)*m*vf^2 - (1/2)*m*vi^2

But this required more than simply F=ma, nammely (ii) and (iii).

I read online that conservation of momentum can be derived from Newton's third law. How?
Newton's third law is not really an equation, but more of a 'concept'.
I am failing to understand something here.

Thanks for your help to discuss/answer this vague question,
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The full definition of Newton's third law (translated from the Latin but not by me!) states:

If a body impinges upon another, and by its force changes the motion of the other, that body also (because of the equality of the mutual pressure) will undergo an equal change, in its own motion, toward the contrary part. The changes made by these actions are equal, not in the velocities but in the motions of the bodies; that is to say, if the bodies are not hindered by any other impediments. For, as the motions are equally changed, the changes of the velocities made toward contrary parts are reciprocally proportional to the bodies.

So what is equal is "changes in the motions". This sounds to me like "overall momentum is conserved".
 
using F=ma we can easily show that \intF.ds=(1/2)mv2
Now d/dt{\intF.ds} = d/dt{(1/2)mv2}
\Rightarrow d/dt{\intF.ds-(1/2)mv2}=0
\Rightarrow (1/2)mv2-\intF.ds=constant

Use this to prove conservation of energy. In the case of a body moving under gravity the constant will be initial kinetic energy and the integral will become mgh. for a collision problem u can use Newtons third law to prove conservation of energy.
 
Last edited:
Thread 'Variable mass system : water sprayed into a moving container'
Starting with the mass considerations #m(t)# is mass of water #M_{c}# mass of container and #M(t)# mass of total system $$M(t) = M_{C} + m(t)$$ $$\Rightarrow \frac{dM(t)}{dt} = \frac{dm(t)}{dt}$$ $$P_i = Mv + u \, dm$$ $$P_f = (M + dm)(v + dv)$$ $$\Delta P = M \, dv + (v - u) \, dm$$ $$F = \frac{dP}{dt} = M \frac{dv}{dt} + (v - u) \frac{dm}{dt}$$ $$F = u \frac{dm}{dt} = \rho A u^2$$ from conservation of momentum , the cannon recoils with the same force which it applies. $$\quad \frac{dm}{dt}...
I was thinking using 2 purple mattress samples, and taping them together, I do want other ideas though, the main guidelines are; Must have a volume LESS than 1600 cubic centimeters, and CAN'T exceed 25 cm in ANY direction. Must be LESS than 1 kg. NO parachutes. NO glue or Tape can touch the egg. MUST be able to take egg out in less than 1 minute. Grade A large eggs will be used.
Back
Top