Conservation of momentum/energy

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of momentum and energy in a scenario involving rotational motion, specifically analyzing the moments of inertia and angular velocities of a skater. The original poster attempts to understand why conservation of energy does not yield the same results as conservation of momentum in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of conservation laws, comparing results from conservation of momentum and conservation of energy. Questions arise regarding the role of non-conservative forces and the implications of work done by the skater in altering kinetic energy.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different interpretations of the conservation principles. Some guidance has been offered regarding the effects of non-conservative forces on momentum conservation, but no consensus has been reached on the overall application of energy conservation in this scenario.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the presence of non-conservative forces, such as friction, and the implications of work done by the skater, which may affect the conservation of energy in the problem setup.

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Homework Statement


http://imgur.com/cEqXb24

Homework Equations


Ki = Kf
Li = Lf

The Attempt at a Solution


So I tried to solve this using conservation of energy as well as conservation of momentum, but only conservation of momentum gave the correct answer. Why can't conservation of energy be used in this situation?
 
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Here is the work:
Both of these moments of inertia already include the body:
Iinitial = 2.83
Ifinal = 0.9625
ωinitial = 0.40 rev/s

Using conservation of momentum:
Iinitialωinitial = Ifinalωfinal
(2.83)(0.4) = (0.9625)ωfinal
ωfinal = 1.2 rev/s

Using conservation of energy:
Wnon-conservative forces = 0 and no potential energy.
Kinitial = Kfinal
(1/2)Iinitialωinitial2 = (1/2)Ifinalωfinal2
(2.83)(0.402) = (0.9625)(ωfinal2)
ωfinal = 0.69 rev/s
 
Also, if there were a non conservative force such as friction, momentum would not be conserved because it would be an external force.
 
The skater has to do work to bring the arms closer to the body, and this increases the kinetic energy.
 

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