Cross Section for e+e- in EM interaction - Is it the same?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the cross section for the processes involving electron-positron annihilation into various lepton pairs, specifically comparing the processes ##e^+e^- \rightarrow \mu^+ \mu^-##, ##e^+e^- \rightarrow \tau^+ \tau^-##, and ##e^+e^- \rightarrow e^- e^+##. Participants explore the implications of high energy conditions, phase space considerations, and the differences in Feynman diagrams associated with these processes.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states the cross section for ##e^+e^- \rightarrow \mu^+ \mu^-## is given by a specific formula and questions if it applies to the other processes.
  • Another participant notes that while the cross section for tau production may be the same, the electron case involves more diagrams, which complicates the calculation.
  • There is a suggestion that the cross section for ##e^+e^- \rightarrow e^- e^+## could be simply twice that of the muon case, but this is met with skepticism regarding the addition of amplitudes.
  • Concerns are raised about phase space issues at lower energies, particularly for tau production, and how this affects the cross section calculations.
  • Participants discuss the implications of using a small photon mass in calculations and the assumptions regarding lepton masses.
  • One participant emphasizes that the Feynman rules and phase space do not change between muons and taus, suggesting the formula remains consistent.
  • Another participant provides a detailed expression for the differential cross section for the muon case and discusses the integration limits necessary for accurate calculations.
  • The Bhabha scattering cross section is also introduced, highlighting the complexity of the electron-positron scattering process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the cross sections for the various processes are the same or how they relate to one another. There is no consensus on whether the cross section for ##e^+e^- \rightarrow e^- e^+## is simply twice that of the muon case, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of phase space and energy conditions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on energy conditions, assumptions about lepton masses, and the complexity introduced by additional diagrams in the electron case. The discussion also highlights the need for careful consideration of relativistic effects and phase space in cross section calculations.

unscientific
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I was studying my notes and specifically for the ##e^+e^- \rightarrow \mu^+ \mu^-## process, cross section is given by
\sigma = \frac{4\pi}{3} \left( \frac{\alpha \hbar c}{W} \right)^2
where ##\alpha = \frac{g_{EM}^2}{4\pi}## and ##W## is the centre of mass energy.

Is this the same for ##e^+e^- \rightarrow \tau^+ \tau^-## and ##e^-e^+ \rightarrow e^-e^+## process? I know the vertex factor is the same as they have the same charge.
 
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This is for high energies? Otherwise phase-space is an issue.
For taus you get the same cross-section, but for electrons you have more diagrams to include which changes the answer.
 
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mfb said:
This is for high energies? Otherwise phase-space is an issue.
For taus you get the same cross-section, but for electrons you have more diagrams to include which changes the answer.

I know that for the second process ##e^+e^- \rightarrow e^+e^-## you can either have electron-electron scattering, or annihilation-production. So is the cross section for the second process simply twice of the first?

And yeah I think it's reasonable to assume that ##W >> m_\mu c^2## so the mass of the products don't matter.
 
I would be surprised if it is exactly twice (you have to add amplitudes, not probabilities), but I don't know the factor. You can look it up.
 
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mfb said:
I would be surprised if it is exactly twice (you have to add amplitudes, not probabilities), but I don't know the factor. You can look it up.

I think the relation is given by
2012_B4_Q3.png

Calculation is given in http://physics.weber.edu/schroeder/feynman/feynman3.pdf
 
mfb said:
I would be surprised if it is exactly twice

Your intuition is right. It's not a factor of two. It's infinite. You can have arbitrarily low momentum transfer in the electron case (so the cross-section blows up) but not in the muon case.
 
Why is phase space an issue if it is not "high energies"? The two calculations are the same for mu and tau surely (just use m_lepton). Of course that's assuming stable final state.

Practically for electron scattering you use a small photon mass?
 
Well, a trivial case is an energy like ##\sqrt{s}=1\, GeV##, where tau production is not possible at all. And even above that, as long as the leptons are not highly relativistic the cross-section looks different.

RGevo said:
Practically for electron scattering you use a small photon mass?
The photon mass is zero. You need the additional approximation of small lepton masses for this simple formula.
 
So the formula for the cross section changes depending on if "the leptons are not highly relativistic"?

I am aware that the photon mass is zero. Is the cross section for electron (or quark scattering for that matter)? No. In qcd you define the final state in terms of ir safe observables - jets. My question was, so you do the same in qed, and I guessed this could be done by introducing a small photon mass, as is regularly done for 1-loop integrals with collinear divergences...
 
  • #10
I don't know your background, but why don't you try to extract the cross section for this process? e^- e^+ \rightarrow \mu^- \mu^+ and see by yourself?
 
  • #11
Missed an *infinite* there
 
  • #12
Well, the Feynman rules don't change, the 2-body phase space doesn't change, and the incoming flux is independent of whether it is muons or taus.

So no, the formula doesn't change.
 
  • #13
ChrisVer said:
I don't know your background, but why don't you try to extract the cross section for this process? e^- e^+ \rightarrow \mu^- \mu^+ and see by yourself?

Feynman calculations are out my syllabus, so we take a rather holistic approach towards feynman diagrams.
 
  • #14
Well OK, I think then some people have already answered you.
The thing is that there are different amplitudes, which for the muon and tau look the same.
The electron-positron has one additional diagram, which corresponds to scattering rather than annihilation.

The differential cross section (I found it here, but I didn't look through the calculations http://www.physics.usu.edu/Wheeler/QFT/PicsII/QFT10Feb23Muon.pdf) for the electron positron to muon-antimuon is:
\frac{d \sigma}{d \Omega} =\frac{e^4}{64 \pi^2 s} \frac{\sqrt{1- \frac{4m_\mu^2}{s}}}{\sqrt{1-\frac{4m_e^2}{s}}} \Big[ 1+ \frac{4}{s} (m_e^2 +m_\mu^2) + \Big( 1- \frac{4m_e^2}{s} \Big) \Big( 1- \frac{4m_\mu^2}{s} \Big) \cos^2 \theta \Big]

Where s = W^2 and if you want to put taus as a last product, you have to replace the m_\mu with m_\tau.

Now if you use that m_e, m_\mu \ll W =\sqrt{s} < 90~GeV and carry out the integration of the differential cross section you will get to the cross section you posted. But the above limit must be taken and that's why everyone said that the leptons should be relativistic .. I think they avoid to write an W=90~GeV to avoid the creation of Z^0 resonance (where the decay via Z^0 will become important).

As for the electron positron scattering, you would have a similar term which would correspond to your annihilation diagram squared, and two additional terms: 1 for the scattering and 1 for the interference of amplitudes.
I think this is given by Bhabha cross section.
 
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  • #15
Yup, the ultrarelativistic Bhabha differential cross section is:
\frac{d \sigma}{d \Omega}=\frac{e^4}{32 \pi^2 s} \Big[ \frac{1}{2} (1+\cos^2 \theta) + \frac{1+ \cos^4 (\theta/2)}{sin^4 (\theta/2)} - \frac{2 \cos^4 (\theta/2)}{\sin^2 (\theta/2)} \Big]

If you try to integrate it (using right cuts for the angles to avoid the explosion of the cross section at the singular points) \theta_0 \le \theta \le \pi, you will get:

\sigma= \frac{4 \pi \alpha^2}{s} \Big[ \frac{1}{\sin^2(\theta_0/2)} + \log \sin^2 (\theta_0/2) + \frac{4}{3} \Big]
 
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