- #1
GKRM
- 22
- 0
I'm a high school student with basic knowledge about thermodynamics. I have always come across systems under going reversible cyclic processes. Are there any cases for irreversible cyclic processes? Thanks in advance.
GKRM said:I'm a high school student with basic knowledge about thermodynamics. I have always come across systems under going reversible cyclic processes. Are there any cases for irreversible cyclic processes? Thanks in advance.
Yes.GKRM said:Sir if a system undergoes an irreversible process will it reach the same state as before for example same temperature pressure and volume?
Yes. In typical cyclic processes, the cycle is subdivided into individual legs, usually four. At the beginning or end of each leg, the working fluid is typically assumed to be in a thermodynamic equilibrium state. However, if the process is irreversible, one or more of the legs will not pass through a continuous sequence of thermodynamic equilibrium states (i.e., it will be irreversible). But it is still possible to plot the irreversible cyclic process on a graph of pressure vs volume if, by the pressure, we mean the force per unit area exerted by the gas on the inside face of the piston. This can be measured experimentally using, say, a flush mounted pressure transducer. The work done by the gas on the surroundings will then be the integral of this pressure over the volume change. This "external" pressure can be imposed manually using an automatic control system with feedback to control the piston movement.And is it possible to plot an irreversible cyclic process on a graph even if it's not in equilibrium with the surroundings? (These are the probable reasons I think because of which I've not come across any irreversible cyclic processes with a possible graph)
Chestermiller said:Yes.
GKRM said:I'm a high school student with basic knowledge about thermodynamics. I have always come across systems under going reversible cyclic processes. Are there any cases for irreversible cyclic processes? Thanks in advance.
This is not correct. The working fluid (system) returns to its original state in an irreversible cyclic process. It is the surroundings which do not return to their original state. This is, by definition, an irreversible cyclic process.PhysicsExplorer said:You're mixing apples and oranges when you say
''irreversible cyclic process''
Cyclic means something comes back to its original state, irreversible does not.
Well I can honestly say then, I have never heard of ''irreversible cyclic process'' and hence my misunderstanding.Chestermiller said:This is not correct. The working fluid (system) returns to its original state in an irreversible cyclic process. It is the surroundings which do not return to their original state. This is, by definition, an irreversible cyclic process.
Caution: Your response is bordering on misinformation.
Only an honest mistake, I have not heard the terminology.Chestermiller said:Caution: Your response is bordering on misinformation.
A cyclic thermodynamic process is a series of changes in a system that eventually brings the system back to its original state. It is represented by a closed loop on a thermodynamic diagram and involves the exchange of heat and work between the system and its surroundings.
The three main types of cyclic thermodynamic processes are the Carnot cycle, the Otto cycle, and the Diesel cycle. The Carnot cycle is a reversible process that operates between two thermal reservoirs, while the Otto and Diesel cycles are internal combustion processes used in engines.
The efficiency of a cyclic thermodynamic process is the ratio of the work output to the heat input. It is always less than 100% due to energy losses during the process. The Carnot cycle has the highest possible efficiency for a given temperature difference between the two reservoirs.
Entropy is a measure of the disorder or randomness in a system. In a cyclic thermodynamic process, entropy remains constant as the system returns to its initial state. However, the entropy of the surroundings may change due to the exchange of heat and work.
Cyclic thermodynamic processes are present in many everyday devices and systems. Examples include the operation of a refrigerator or air conditioner, the combustion process in an engine, and the water cycle in nature. They are also used in industrial processes such as power generation and refrigeration systems.