Dark Matter: Light or Misunderstood?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of dark matter, specifically questioning whether forms of pure energy could account for gravitational effects observed in cosmic anomalies. Participants explore the implications of energy's gravitational influence, the characteristics of dark matter, and the modeling of different types of matter.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether high concentrations of pure energy could create gravitational effects significant enough to explain anomalies associated with dark matter, referencing E=mc².
  • Another participant asserts that the effects of energy on gravitational anomalies have already been considered in the context of dark matter research.
  • A participant explains that dark matter does not interact electromagnetically, which is a defining characteristic that distinguishes it from other forms of matter, including photons.
  • One participant elaborates on the concept of an "equation of state" for different types of matter, indicating that dark matter must be "cold" rather than "hot" like photons or neutrinos, based on how pressure and volume interact under compression.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of energy in gravitational effects related to dark matter. While some assert that energy's effects have been accounted for, others remain uncertain about the implications of energy on dark matter's characteristics.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of dark matter and the implications of energy's gravitational effects. The discussion includes references to specific physical principles and models without reaching a consensus on the interpretations.

excession
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If this is a stupid question, just tell me.

As I understand it, even forms of pure energy can create a gravitational effect in high concentrations due to E=mc2. Would this have enough of an effect to create some of the anomalies prompting the search for DM, or has this already been taken into account?

Or, as is more likely, what have I misunderstood?

Cheers people
 
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It has already been taken into account.

Lay-friendly description:
http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=446
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dark matter does not participate in electromagnetic interactions, hence it is dark (does not emit any form of radiation that can be absorbed). Photons interact through the electromagnetic interaction, but not ordinary Coulomb interaction because they are not charged. The main http://mightylib.mit.edu/Course%20Materials/22.01/Fall%202001/photons%20part%201.pdf through which a flux of photons loses energy are:
  • Photoelectric effect
  • Compton scattering
  • Pair production
 
Last edited by a moderator:
excession said:
If this is a stupid question, just tell me.

As I understand it, even forms of pure energy can create a gravitational effect in high concentrations due to E=mc2. Would this have enough of an effect to create some of the anomalies prompting the search for DM, or has this already been taken into account?

Or, as is more likely, what have I misunderstood?

Cheers people

Radiation always travels in a "straight" line at the "speed of light." It cannot remain in one place, it disperses if not contained. Dark matter isn't contained and doesn't disperse, so it can't be radiation.
 
Cheers for that, makes a bit more sense now.

Thanks for taking time to reply.
 
One other thing is that you can model different types of matter by their what's called an "equation of state". Basically it's how much pressure that you get if you squeeze it, and that results in a number called w. For ordinary matter, w=0, which means that the pressure is inversely proportional to the volume. For light, w=1/3, which means that if you squeeze it, then the pressure goes up faster than the inverse of the volume.

One way of thinking about it, is that if you compress gas, it gets hot, when something gets hot, the number of photons it produces goes up very, very quickly.

So you put all of this into your computer program, you figure out the lumpiness factor, and you find out that if dark matter was something like photons, then the universe would be pretty smooth. That rules out dark matter not only being photons, but it also means that it's not a particle like weird neutrinos or anything else "hot." Whatever dark matter is, it's "cold."
 

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