Dative bond confusion (or coordinate bond)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of dative bonds, particularly in the context of complex ions and their interactions with ligands such as water. Participants explore the behavior of lone pairs in these interactions and the resulting hybridization and geometry of the complexes formed.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the role of lone pairs in complex ions, specifically in the reaction of NH3 with H+ and the hydration of Cu2+.
  • Another participant suggests that the lone pairs are "dumped into the LUMO," implying a higher energy orbital involvement.
  • A different viewpoint indicates that the lone pairs go into a higher energy orbital and mentions hybridization, suggesting that the orbitals combine to form a definitive shape.
  • One participant explains that in the case of Cu2+, the lone pairs from water are donated to the d-orbital of the copper ion, leading to dsp3 hybridization and a trigonal bipyramidal geometry.
  • Another participant challenges the claim about the geometry, stating that with six water molecules, a trigonal bipyramidal structure cannot be adopted, as only five ligands are needed for that geometry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the hybridization and geometry of the complexes formed with Cu2+. There is no consensus on the correct interpretation of the orbital interactions and the resulting structures.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference concepts such as hybridization and ligand interactions without fully resolving the implications of these terms. There are assumptions about the behavior of orbitals and the nature of complex formation that remain unexamined.

dilan
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I am a little confused with this. I know what a dative bond is, but the problem is when it comes to complex ions I do not understand.

ok now for example

NH_3 + H^+ = NH_4^+

So in this the lone pair of NH3 will fill the s- subshell of H and make it stable,

but say in Cu^2^+
when this attracts six water molecules with six lone pairs, where do these lone pairs go? I mean what subshell does it fill?I really appreciate if you can help me with this.
Thanks a lot
 
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they are dumped into the LUMO.
 
They go into a higher energy orbital.

Its more advanced than it seems though, The different shells actually sort of combine in a way called hybridisation, these shells form a difinitive shape. The lone pairs partially go into these hybridisation shells.

i think someone else could probably describe it more correctly. I'm not too confidant on the subject myself.
 
When cu2+ is hydrated, the lone pairs of electrons present on the oxygen atom of water are 'donated' to the d-orbital of the copper 2+ ion. This is why copper can form complexes (thats what the species is called).

This species has a certain structure which depends on the type of ligand attacking (in this case water), the number of bonds formed, and where the lone pairs go. Here, the orbitals undergo dsp^3 hybridisation (that basically means the number of lone pairs present in the respective orbital: in this case, 1 in 3d, 1 in 4s, and 3 in 4p) to give the species trigonal bipyramidal geometry (a triangle with two bonds perpendicular to the plane sticking out of the center).

Look up werner's theory/ability of d-block metals to form complexes if you want more detail.

Another example of a complex is Tollen's reagent [Ag(NH3)4]+ which gives your famous silver mirror test for aldehydes.
 
If the copper is hydrated with 6 molecules of water, it cannot adopt a trigonal bipyramid structure. Only 5 ligands are required for a trigonalbipyramid...
 

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