Dr.D said:
This is a complex problem, and like most design problems, you will likely have to iterate. This makes a computer formulation very attractive.
The problem presented is not complex. Iteration is not useful as the integers involved in the gear ratios restrict solution to a short table of possibilities. Being able to factorise numbers and recognising mutual primes is more important in gearbox design.
Dr.D said:
You can deal with the gears as if they were smooth friction wheels with radius equal to the pitch radius of each gear.
That is not necessary, nor true. Friction wheels or belts can have irrational ratios and slip. Gears and roller chains are restricted to integer ratios and are locked.
Dr.D said:
It seems to me that Baluncore is way off base here. Consider these points:
This thread is on a public forum, anyone looking for information on tractor reduction boxes who finds and reads this thread should be able to see a sensible solution to the simple task of speed reduction in heavy equipment.
Dr.D said:
1. The assignment presents the topology of the gear train to be designed, and it most definitely is not a planetary train.
The image in the OP is only referenced when showing that the input and output shafts must be in line. Spur gears are specified, that is satisfied by the use of either an epicyclic or a gearbox with an intermediate shaft.
Dr.D said:
2. Planetary trains are far more expensive and complex to actually build, and that additional cost is only justified in special cases. The assignment makes it rather clear that this is not required, and therefore not justified.
Epicyclics will carry greater forces than standard gear systems of the same size. I find them simpler to build and lower cost. Because there are usually three or four planetary gears transferring torque, the size of the gears can be significantly smaller for the same power. An epicyclic reduction gear does not place side forces on the gear shafts. The image in the OP shows six separate bearings being required to counter those forces in an intermediate shaft box. In an epicyclic gearbox, a needle roller bearing is needed for each planet on the carrier. The input and output shafts are self-centring, input and output bearings are not required. Heavy equipment uses epicyclic reduction gears because they are both more compact and more robust. Where hydraulic motors drive large diameter wheels, an epicyclic is often used as a reduction stage.
The claim that the required tractor gearbox must be designed to handle 22HP demonstrates that it is not a real tractor, but only a toy. The early TE20 grey Ferguson tractors were 20HP and had an optional epicyclic reduction, but that was 75 years ago. The Model T Ford also used an epicyclic box over one hundred years ago, so epicyclics are certainly not difficult to build, nor expensive.
Dr.D said:
3. A part intended learning process for this assignment is for the student to work through the process of fining suitable tooth numbers to meet the ratio requirements. Why does Baluncore short circuit this process by producing an extensive table of tooth number combinations.
You ask me why? This thread is in the engineering, not in the homework section. I presented a table of all the reasonable epicyclic possibilities for the solution required by the OP. I did not identify the few that would be on my short list nor why I would have chosen one particular set. The ratios I provided are quite inapplicable to a standard gearbox and so are of no help in the solution that Dr.D is advocating. My table shows that many epicyclic solutions are possible. If djp012 was to do the calculations for an epicyclic solution, the table I provided would help confirm the right path to a solution. There are a few important parts of both solutions that I did not provide.
Dr.D said:
All in all, I think that the advice of Baluncore on this problem should be totally ignored, Science Advisor though he may be.
I did not apply to become a science advisor, the award was made without my knowledge. I believe it was in recognition of my experience in quite diverse corners of the scientific and engineering worlds.
Discounting the use of epicyclic gears in driveline applications would demonstrate an ignorance of current engineering practice in heavy equipment design. While I now only rebuild about one heavy tractor gearbox each year, as the owner and experienced operator of a gear hobbing machine, I believe I can claim some knowledge of that field.
I would expect an intelligent student to present a solution using an intermediate shaft system, but to also suggest that an epicyclic reducer would be a more compact and more reliable alternative. A competent student has the ability to decide who's posts to ignore without misleading advice.