Determine max force and acceleration to safely make a turn

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on calculating the maximum safe speed for a vehicle making a turn with a radius of approximately 110m and a coefficient of static friction of 0.85. Using the equations of motion, the maximum acceleration is determined to be 8.33 m/s², leading to a maximum velocity of about 30.3 m/s. Participants note that without the mass of the vehicle, a numerical value for the maximum force cannot be calculated, as it is essential for determining net force. There is a consensus that the problem may not require a specific numerical force value, but rather an understanding of the steps to find the speed. Clarifications on vector notation and the relevance of mass are discussed, emphasizing the importance of following up with the professor for further guidance.
bornofflame
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Homework Statement


The coefficient of static friction between a tire and a dry road is about μs=0.85. What is the fastest you can safely drive the turn below?
a. Use a free-body diagram and force equations to determine the maximum force and acceleration you can achieve.
b. Use the map to estimate the radius and maximum velocity of the turn.

I don't have the map readily available but the radius is estimated at approximately 110m.

Homework Equations


F = ma
f ≤ μsN
fmax = μs-maxN
W = mg
a = V2/r

The Attempt at a Solution


a[/B].
p101-test2-redo-1.png


I drew my force diagrams and got the following (repeated from image):
y: N - mg = may = 0, so: N = mg
x: f = max = μN = μmg, so: ax = μg

amax = μg = (0.85)(9.8m/s2) = 8.33m/s2

b. r = 110m, Vmax = ?
a = V2 / r, so: V2 = ar, and V = ±√(ar),
which means:
Vmax = ±√(a⊥-maxr) = ±√(8.33m/s2⋅110m)=±30.3m/s
I'm satisfied with my answer for part b, but am including it just in case there is something that is wrong with it. My main concern, however, is part a as I can't seem to figure out how to get the Fmax which I am assuming is friction max because that is the only force at work keeping the vehicle from sliding off the road.
 

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If you know amax and you know that Fnet = ma, what do you think Fnet, max might be?
Also, I would drop the ± signs. You are calculating magnitudes of vectors here.
 
If you aren't given the mass of the vehicle, then I don't think you can get a numerical value for the force.
 
TSny said:
If you aren't given the mass of the vehicle, then I don't think you can get the force.
Oops, I didn't notice that it's not given. :oops:
 
kuruman said:
Also, I would drop the ± signs. You are calculating magnitudes of vectors here.

Ok. I'll keep that in mind. I was thinking to keep it b/c I was thinking of velocity as a vector, but it's definitely asking what is the fastest. Thanks for pointing that out.

TSny said:
If you aren't given the mass of the vehicle, then I don't think you can get a numerical value for the force.

Yeah. Unfortunately no mass which is what's blocking me.
 
bornofflame said:
Unfortunately no mass which is what's blocking me.
I'm not sure it wants a numerical value for that. The way it is worded, it could just be telling you the steps to go through to find the speed.
 
haruspex said:
I'm not sure it wants a numerical value for that. The way it is worded, it could just be telling you the steps to go through to find the speed.

Okay. I wasn't sure that there was a way to replace mass that I just wasn't seeing. I'll follow up with my professor. Thanks.
 
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