Directional derivative at a point

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of directional derivatives in multivariable calculus, specifically evaluating them at the point (2,0,1). Participants are examining the relationship between gradients and directional derivatives, as well as the conditions under which certain formulas apply.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss finding partial derivatives and their implications for calculating the gradient and directional derivative. There are questions about the correctness of the partial derivatives and the continuity of these derivatives in the neighborhood of the point of interest.

Discussion Status

Some participants have pointed out potential inaccuracies in the original poster's calculations of partial derivatives. Others have raised questions about the continuity of these derivatives and the validity of the directional derivative formula. The conversation is exploring various interpretations and clarifications without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

There is an emphasis on the conditions required for the directional derivative formula to hold, particularly regarding the continuity of first partial derivatives. Participants are also considering the implications of having well-defined directional derivatives in certain directions without finite partial derivatives at the point in question.

catch22
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Homework Statement


upload_2015-10-29_21-55-55.png


Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


part a) finding partial derivatives:
upload_2015-10-29_22-5-49.png


and plugging in (2,0,1) into each, I get the gradient which is <0,-2,0>

to find the directional derivative, it is the dot product of the gradient and unit vector of (3,1,1):

upload_2015-10-29_22-1-26.png


part b) isn't the direction of the greatest increase just the gradient, which I found in part A?

upload_2015-10-29_22-4-50.png


and the greatest increase at (2,0,1) is the magnitude of the gradient there, which is

upload_2015-10-29_22-7-4.png
 
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catch22 said:
part b) isn't the direction of the greatest increase just the gradient, which I found in part A?
Yes.
A pedant might insist that a direction should be given as a normalized vector. But we are not pedants.
 
catch22 said:

Homework Statement


View attachment 91055

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


part a) finding partial derivatives:
View attachment 91058

and plugging in (2,0,1) into each, I get the gradient which is <0,-2,0>

to find the directional derivative, it is the dot product of the gradient and unit vector of (3,1,1):

View attachment 91056

part b) isn't the direction of the greatest increase just the gradient, which I found in part A?

View attachment 91057

and the greatest increase at (2,0,1) is the magnitude of the gradient there, which is

View attachment 91059

Some of your partial derivatives are incorrect (although not by very much).
catch22 said:

Homework Statement


View attachment 91055

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


part a) finding partial derivatives:
View attachment 91058

and plugging in (2,0,1) into each, I get the gradient which is <0,-2,0>

to find the directional derivative, it is the dot product of the gradient and unit vector of (3,1,1):

View attachment 91056

part b) isn't the direction of the greatest increase just the gradient, which I found in part A?

View attachment 91057

and the greatest increase at (2,0,1) is the magnitude of the gradient there, which is

View attachment 91059

One of your partial derivatives is wrong.
 
Also, you don't say anything about the continuity of the first partial derivatives in a neighborhood of ##(2,0,1)##. It is under that condition that the formula ##(D_{\vec v}f)(2,0,1) = (\nabla f. \vec v) (2,0,1) ## is valid.
 
Ray Vickson said:
Some of your partial derivatives are incorrect (although not by very much).One of your partial derivatives is wrong.
wow, I can't believe I didn't spot that +x at the end.

it should be (-yz e^-xyz) + 1
 
the correct answers after fixing the partial derivative with respect to x

upload_2015-10-30_4-27-18.png
 

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geoffrey159 said:
Also, you don't say anything about the continuity of the first partial derivatives in a neighborhood of ##(2,0,1)##. It is under that condition that the formula ##(D_{\vec v}f)(2,0,1) = (\nabla f. \vec v) (2,0,1) ## is valid.
do you mean like saying the domain is from negative infinity to positive infinity?
 
Not at all and I wonder why you ask that ?
 
geoffrey159 said:
Not at all and I wonder why you ask that ?

Well, it IS possible to have a well-defined directional derivatives in some directions ##\vec{d}## at a point ##\vec{r_0}= (x_0,y_0,z_0)##, but to not have well-defined, finite partial derivatives at ##\vec{r_0}##. However, the present example is not so pathological.
 

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