Discrepancy regarding time measurement

In summary, Einstein's 1905 paper discusses the evaluation of times of events occurring at places remote from the observer. He describes a method of using an observer stationed at the origin of co-ordinates to coordinate the positions of hands on a clock with light signals given out by the event to be timed. However, this method has the disadvantage of not being independent of the observer's standpoint. This is because the round-trip speed of light can be measured, but not the one-way speed, without making arbitrary assumptions. Einstein's postulate addresses this issue by allowing observers in relative inertial motion to make the assumption that the two halves of their measured round-trip will take the same amount of time, thus creating a consistent co-ordinate system
  • #1
wizrdofvortex
12
0
Here's a quote from Einstein's 1905 paper regarding evaluation of times of events occurring at places remote from the observer :

We might, of course, content ourselves with time values determined by an observer stationed together with the watch at the origin of the co-ordinates, and coordinating the corresponding positions of the hands with light signals, given out by every event to be timed, and reaching him through empty space. But this co-ordination has the disadvantage that it is not independent of the standpoint of the observer with the watch or clock, as we know from experience.

Please explain the meaning of that last sentence. I mean, where and why does the disadvantage of using the above method arise?
 
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  • #2
It's because, although we can measure the round-trip speed of light, we cannot know if the two halves of the trip take an equal amount of time. In other words, we cannot measure the one-way speed of light without making some arbitrary assumptions (like, it is the same as the average of the two-way speed of light). The observers that Einstein is taliking about are moving at different constant speeds with respect to each other. Einstein's second postulate is that for each of them, they can make the assumption that the two halves of their measured round-trip will take the same amount of time and it will be consistent with the First Postulate that all the laws of physics look the same to all observers no matter what constant speed they are traveling at.
 
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  • #3
ghwellsjr said:
It's because, although we can measure the round-trip speed of light, we cannot know if the two halves of the trip take an equal amount of time. In other words, we cannot measure the one-way speed of light without making some arbitrary assumptions (like, it is the same as the average of the two-way speed of light). The observers that Einstein is taliking about are moving at different constant speeds with respect to each other. Einstein's second postulate is that for each of them, they can make the assumption that the two halves of their measured round-trip will take the same amount of time and it will be consistent with the First Postulate that all the laws of physics look the same to all observers no matter what constant speed they are traveling at.

I'm sorry but I don't quite follow. I understood your latter point about the consistency between two inertial frames and that they can assume the two halves to be of the same duration. But could you please elaborate on how the necessity of measuring the time of the two halves of a round-trip come into the picture? I mean, how is this relevant to the method of measuring the time of an event I mentioned in my first post quote?

(Apologies if I'm being obtuse)
 
  • #4
In his 1905 paper, Einstein described the normal method of measuring the round-trip speed of light by placing a mirror a measured distance away and timing how long it takes the light to go from the source, to the mirror, and reflect back to the source. Then he shows the formula for calculating the average speed of light. (He doesn't describe all the details because he assumes the reader is already familiar with this process but if you read it with this in mind, you can see that this is what he is talking about.)

He then points out that it is impossible to know what time the light actually hit the mirror (a distant event) or any other distant event with respect to the timer (or clock) that was used at the source to measure the round-trip speed of light. If you read his paper again carefully with this understanding in mind, you will see that this is exactly what he is talking about.

So now comes his postulate. Just define both halves of the round-trip to take the same amount of time. Now you can use this technique to synchronize any distant clock that is at rest with respect to the first clock/timer and mirror, etc. This process allows an observer to define a system of co-ordinates involving three dimensions of space and one dimension of time in a consistent way.

You have to keep in mind that the problem that Einstein is solving is how to describe the transmission of light when it proves impossible to determine the rest state of the "luminiferous ether" which is the only frame in which the two-halves of the measured round-trip speed of light actually take the same amount of time. He points out that two observers in relative inertial motion can both presume that they are each at rest in the presumed absolute ether rest frame and by using his techinique of establishing a co-ordinate system, all the laws of physics will be the same for each of them. In other words, it is not necessary to be concerned about identifying an actual ether rest frame.
 
  • #5
Understood, thanks a lot...
 

1. What is discrepancy regarding time measurement?

Discrepancy regarding time measurement refers to a difference or inconsistency between the actual time and the measured time. It can occur due to various factors such as human error, equipment malfunction, or environmental conditions.

2. How does discrepancy in time measurement affect scientific experiments?

Discrepancy in time measurement can significantly impact the accuracy and reliability of scientific experiments. It can lead to erroneous data and false conclusions, making it crucial for scientists to ensure precise and consistent time measurements.

3. What are some common methods for measuring time in scientific experiments?

Some common methods for measuring time in scientific experiments include using timers, stopwatches, clocks, and specialized equipment such as oscilloscopes or atomic clocks. Each method has its own level of accuracy and precision, and it is important to select the most appropriate one for a specific experiment.

4. How can scientists reduce discrepancies in time measurement?

To reduce discrepancies in time measurement, scientists can use multiple methods for measuring time, cross-check their results, and calibrate their equipment regularly. They can also take into account potential sources of error and make necessary adjustments to minimize discrepancies.

5. How important is accurate time measurement in scientific research?

Accurate time measurement is crucial in scientific research as it allows for reliable and reproducible results. It also helps in establishing cause-and-effect relationships and making precise predictions. Without accurate time measurement, the validity and credibility of scientific findings can be called into question.

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