Do laws of thermodynamics really apply to ecosystems?

[Tyto alba]

From Odum (Father of modern ecology)

Ecosystem follows the laws of termodynamics
1st law

Energy is neither created nor destroyed.

2nd law

No process involving an energy change will spontaneously occur unless there is a degradation of energy from a concentrated to a dispersed form.

The way the laws have been put it looks alright but they are valid for closed systems only which ecosystems are not.

However according to wikipedia apart from having a closed system there are several other factors to consider:
1. 1st law
2. 2nd law

Note: I have fundamental idea about thermodynamics having read physics upto class XII level. My understanding about the validity of these laws in ecosystems isn't getting any better.

 

[boneh3ad]

I am not 100% sure what your question is. If it's simply "do the laws of thermodynamics apply to ecosystems" then the answer is still yes. Those laws are universal. If you have a more specific idea there then I guess I am having a hard time figuring out exactly what sort of situation needs clarification here.

 

[Tyto alba]

I am not 100% sure what your question is. If it's simply "do the laws of thermodynamics apply to ecosystems" then the answer is still yes. Those laws are universal. If you have a more specific idea there then I guess I am having a hard time figuring out exactly what sort of situation needs clarification here.

Well the thing is ecosystems are open systems and I believe laws of thermodynamics are valid for closed systems only.

 

[russ_watters]

Well the thing is ecosystems are open systems and I believe laws of thermodynamics are valid for closed systems only.

Draw a big enough circle and an open system becomes a closed system.

Or, take your open system (aka a control volume) and keep track of all goesintos and goesoutofs and you can still apply those laws.

 

[rootone]

All ecosystems on Earth, the only ones we know about, require energy in some form, and dispose of 'used' energy mainly as heat.