Is dowsing a reliable technique for finding well sites?

[zoobyshoe]

Yes, it presumes such a mechanism exists.

Kinda like presuming aliens are visiting Earth with UFO's?

It could be done with that subject just as well, yes. We could stipulate that they are visiting, and then try to think through realistic and logical trains of thought about how their ships operate. Personally, I have no interest in that particular excercise.

Dowsing has never been presented on the level of a theory.
Actually, it has and those theories border on pseudoscience and protoscience.

You are saying that someone has written up a formal paper that satisfies all the requirements of a theory and has tried to get it published in a peer reviewed journal? Or are you saying someone on the net has incorrectly referred to his ramblings about dowsing as a theory?

Unconsciously, like I said.

No, you misunderstood - I meant how can it physically take place? Do dowsers follow around buried pipe experts, have meetings, that sort of thing?

According to these accounts the utility workers are taught how to dowse by more senior and experienced guys. There is no separate dowsing expert involved. All the training is on the job, like in a lot of fields. The trainee learns new things every day. Then the day comes where they can't find the pipe. The experienced guy reaches behind the seat of the truck and pulls out his two bent coat hangers. "OK. This is a job for the rods." The trainee says "Duh, huh?" The sup says, "Shut up and come with me. I show you how to work these puppies."

the divining rods act as a distraction for the person's conscious mind

Ok, I see what you're getting at. But there are those who use "L" shaped brass rods due to the notion the rod is attune to the Earths magnetic fields. Do you think the dowser would therefore not involuntarily move the rods but instead the rods would move themselves due to the magnetic fields?

In the particular line of speculation I am engaged in in this thread, the dowser would, himself, somehow be responsible for the movement of the rods, but he would not consciously instigate this movement, and would believe they had moved by themselves.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Zooby, I can relate to this line of investigation, but can you suggest or at least speculate on the mechanism? Sensitivity to variations in the ambient magnetic or electric field? Being able to hear faint sound of the water in the buried pipe?

It seems that you could do experiments with these "naive" subjects - put 'em in a farady cage for example.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Considering the range of hidden objects that can allegedly be found, it strikes me that people must be sensing variations in the magnetic field around them.
I used to think that some primitive animal instinct to find water might be involved, but now, the only consistent explanation would seem to be magnetic field variations.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

How do wild animals such as wolves and deer know where to find water? Do they in fact have this ability beyond knowing the terrain? I have always thought...for some reason...that they can smell water. Can they? Can we?

Edit: smell is a bad choice of words. Maybe I mean to sense by olfaction generally. The word "smell" may not apply?

 

[Hurkyl]

Some animals can spot bodies of water based on the polarization of light.

Of course, it would require the water to be reflecting light...

 

[zoobyshoe]

Zooby, I can relate to this line of investigation, but can you suggest or at least speculate on the mechanism?

Been doin' that this whole thread.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I once spent a little time with the chief architect of the Biosphere.

:uhh: nuff said?

He once walked across Australia.

:uhh: need more?

Anyway, he learned to follow dingoes [wild dogs] to hidden water sources. They would know exactly where to dig. He almost died of thirst several times so this became a bit of an issue for him.

 

[einsteinian77]

what is dowsing?

 

[zoobyshoe]

what is dowsing?

Old folk method of locating underground water so you could have well water, instead of having to tke your bucket down to the stream all the time.

The original method was to take a willow branch and split it halfway up. Then you hold one half of the split part in each hand with the whole end pointing forward, away from you, and you start to walk around the landscape. Supposedly, when you come to a spot where there is underground water the end of the willow rod will pull down, as if by its own power, and point to the ground there. You mark the spot, and that's where you dig your well.

People still do this. Apparently they now use two metal wires instead of the willow rod. They walk around holding one rod in each hand, with the free ends of the rods pointing forward, and when they come to a spot where there is underground water, the wires will cross of their own accord. The wires are bent at a 90 degree angle, and the vertical section is held loosly in the hands while the horizontal section points forward, in the direction of walking. That's the story, anyway.

People here in this thread have been expanding on claims about what you can find by dowsing: not just water, but anything you want to find.

 

[(Q)]

try to think through realistic and logical trains of thought about how their ships operate.

This is where the UFO nutters lose it as they can never understand the physics behind their so-called “realistic and logical trains of thought” yet press on with their claims stating that aliens MUST be far more advanced than us, hence they’ve already broken the laws of physics.

Or are you saying someone on the net has incorrectly referred to his ramblings about dowsing as a theory?

There have been scientific experiments conducted, so I guess it does classify as a theory.

According to these accounts the utility workers are taught how to dowse by more senior and experienced guys. There is no separate dowsing expert involved.

Well, that may be true for some cases but perhaps not all.

A buried pipe expert, for example, might never get any press if all he does is find pipes based on the standard methodologies. However, if one wanted to make some headlines and perhaps claim a bit of notoriety, he could research where particular pipes are buried using standard methodologies and then commence to wave a stick around and claim he found the pipes by dowsing.

And then there is the problem with the more senior guys trying to explain the mechanisms of dowsing to the junior guys. If it doesn’t work, what are the senior guys to tell?

In the particular line of speculation I am engaged in this thread, the dowser would, himself, somehow be responsible for the movement of the rods, but he would not consciously instigate this movement, and would believe they had moved by themselves.

Hence, the myth of dowsing continues its propagation merely because one “believes” the rods moved themselves. It doesn’t occur to these people to take their reasoning one more step in understanding that inanimate objects don’t move by themselves without some external force acting upon them, especially when no such forces are ever detected.

Ivan speculates:

I used to think that some primitive animal instinct to find water might be involved, but now, the only consistent explanation would seem to be magnetic field variations.

Are you referring to the Earths magnetic field? How do magnetic field variations lead to water?

And as usual, you have jumped to a conclusion without thinking about any other possibilities.

 

[dowser501]

what is dowsing? I have been researching dowsing for 22 years (successfully)
I have ironed out 90% of the bugs and may be right on the last 10%.
I have always taken a scientific approach in my research and tried to avoid the supernatural side of mental dowsing. Actually I prefer to call Dowsing mental channeling or mental radar which it is. I feel I have simplified the workings of mental dowsing down to a few physical laws as to why, when and how mental dowsing works.
It has not been easy as very few articles out of the thousands I have read on the subject bear much credibility as to the actual operation of dowsing rods.
One point I wish to make is that mental dowsing is as real as any other of our senses, and is an incredible experience once you make the breakthrough.
I will answer any sensible queries on the subject. Regards Max

 

[(Q)]

I feel I have simplified the workings of mental dowsing down to a few physical laws as to why, when and how mental dowsing works.

Please explain - what physical laws exactly? How does mental dowsing work exactly?

One point I wish to make is that mental dowsing is as real as any other of our senses

Why then is not a sixth sense? Why has this 'sense' not been detected?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Ivan speculates:

I used to think that some primitive animal instinct to find water might be involved, but now, the only consistent explanation would seem to be magnetic field variations.

Are you referring to the Earths magnetic field? How do magnetic field variations lead to water?

And as usual, you have jumped to a conclusion without thinking about any other possibilities.

speculate
verb: talk over conjecturally, or review in an idle or casual way and with an element of doubt or without sufficient reason to reach a conclusion

http://www.onelook.com/?w=speculate&ls=a

Conclusion
noun: the act of making up your mind about something (Example: "He drew his conclusions quickly")

http://www.onelook.com/?w=conclusion&ls=a

Misrepresent
verb: represent falsely (Example: "This statement misrepresents my intentions")

http://www.onelook.com/?w=misrepresent&ls=a

 

[dowser501]

Please explain - what physical laws exactly? How does mental dowsing work exactly

Firstly it is a 6th sense. How does it work? There is too much involved to cover the whole area of mental dowsing in one go, however I feel on an intelligent forum such as this one you will ask the leading questions which will keep the debate going.

The physical laws involved are Geomatic Flux eminating via solar flares and UV rays which cancel them, plus the aid of lunar reflection to enhance dowsing ability.

In recent times scientists have been studying seriously the possible harmfull effects of the use of mobile phones of the area of the Cerebellum Cortex which they have discovered Co-ordinates muscles, learned skills and timing.

The Cerebellum Cortex sited just above each ear is the culprit if you are looking for
for the power transfer source of mental dowsing. This can be proved by attempting to mentally dowse with a powerfull magnet placed just above an ear and attempting to mentally activate a single dowsing rod clenched in the other hand on the other side of the body.

Indoors preferably, as this stage of learning to mentally dowse you will not realize that the Suns UV rays are cancelling out all dowsing activity.

You will definitely feel a pull on the dowsing rod and even a live mobile phone will give a gentle pull on the dowsing rod. A recent scientific article article from the states
claims to have discovered that mobile phones excite the Cerebellum Cortex.

How dowsing works? The solar supplied Geomagnetic rays must bathe the entire body to make the human body a sender and receiver, remembering to protect the head from uv rays by headwear that covers fully the ears and thus the Cerebullem Cortex which is your transmitter and receiver. The dowser channels out a mental query and basically simply receives a yes or a no in various intensities if the mental answer is yes, and a blank if the answer is no.

Fire away critics and sceptics, you have 20 years of intense study to catch up on in a few postings Regards Max

 

[(Q)]

There is too much involved to cover the whole area of mental dowsing in one go…

In other words, you have no clue?

The physical laws involved are Geomatic Flux eminating via solar flares and UV rays which cancel them, plus the aid of lunar reflection to enhance dowsing ability.

Are you making this up as you go along?

Geomatics is concerned with the measurement, representation, analysis, management, retrieval and display of spatial information describing both the Earth's physical features and the built environment. Geomatics includes disciplines such as:
Surveying, Geodesy, Remote Sensing & Photogrammetry, Cartography, Geographic Information Systems and Global Positioning Systems.

Lunar reflection is merely the light reflecting off the Sun. How is this different from any other reflected light? Why doesn’t direct sunlight have the same effect?

And its interesting that both lunar reflection and UV rays are both electromagentic radiation, yet one aids while the other cancels. Curious, however unlikely.

The Cerebellum Cortex sited just above each ear is the culprit if you are looking for
for the power transfer source of mental dowsing.

The Cerebellum is located in the back of the brain, not above each ear and is a feedback loop for muscle movement and has not been know to “transfer power.”

Indoors preferably, as this stage of learning to mentally dowse you will not realize that the Suns UV rays are cancelling out all dowsing activity.

Why is that – UV rays are merely another form of electromagnet radiation?

How dowsing works? The solar supplied Geomagnetic rays must bathe the entire body to make the human body a sender and receiver

So, the person is bathed in X-rays and magnetic fields? X-rays can do serious harm. Magnetic fields are simply nonionizing electromagnetic energy and have not been shown to have an effect on chemical bonds in the body.

remembering to protect the head from uv rays by headwear that covers fully the ears

A tinfoil hat, perhaps?

The dowser channels out a mental query and basically simply receives a yes or a no in various intensities if the mental answer is yes, and a blank if the answer is no

Where does the yes/no signal originate?

Fire away critics and sceptics, you have 20 years of intense study to catch up on in a few postings Regards

You have made a very feeble attempt at trying to baffle us with BS. A first year physics student could poke holes in that nonsense. Better luck next time.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Firstly it is a 6th sense. How does it work? There is too much involved to cover the whole area of mental dowsing in one go, however I feel on an intelligent forum such as this one you will ask the leading questions which will keep the debate going.

Firstly, where do you get this information? Can you supply any links?

The physical laws involved are Geomatic Flux eminating via solar flares and UV rays which cancel them, plus the aid of lunar reflection to enhance dowsing ability.

In recent times scientists have been studying seriously the possible harmfull effects of the use of mobile phones of the area of the Cerebellum Cortex which they have discovered Co-ordinates muscles, learned skills and timing.

The Cerebellum Cortex sited just above each ear is the culprit if you are looking for
for the power transfer source of mental dowsing. This can be proved by attempting to mentally dowse with a powerfull magnet placed just above an ear and attempting to mentally activate a single dowsing rod clenched in the other hand on the other side of the body.

Indoors preferably, as this stage of learning to mentally dowse you will not realize that the Suns UV rays are cancelling out all dowsing activity.

You need to understand that to any scientist this sounds like nonsense. Can you supply any supporting information here? We are glad to consider your claims, but any theories and references must be supported with links, papers, data, or other evidence that can be tested and verified, otherwise, I would say that your theory has really big problems.

Note also that specific references to published information can only be taken seriously if the sources are cited or linked.

Can you dowse? Are you willing to be tested by a major university?

 

[dowser501]

Dowsing info

Re your query as to whether I would be willing to tested by a recognized University, the answer is a resounding YES. However living in southern Australia I have never heard of any Para normal studies being done in the Universities here.
The only assistance I have ever obtained would hardly be a recognized authority on the subject of dowsing. He was an elderly Irishman whom although unable to dowse himself , knew the basics and showed me the first steps to dowsing.
That was 22 years ago. He dropped dead soon afterwards.
A first year student may be able to tear my theories to pieces, however they are not theories so where do we go from here? I will admit that as an inventor, I have managed to give myself an edge which means that I can dowse under conditions that are impossible for normal demonstrations, which also means I can avoid making a fool of myself.
Instead of knocking me, try and help me understand my ability to the stage where it can be described in black and white. You are the guys with the education, and I just make things happen. regards Max

 

[zoobyshoe]

What's the closest town or city to you, Dowser, and how did you hear about this thread?

 

[dowser501]

Zoobyshoe, I was browsing the internet and discovered this forum accidentally.
I rather like this forum, as you all can at least spell.
I live near Melboune in the state of Victoria Australia.

 

[zoobyshoe]

What sort of stuff do you invent, and are you able to make ends meet with that?

 

[dowser501]

Zooby I am a fashion dezigner aged 74 and have always been able to conoct anything I need to assist me with what I am doing. Age is immaterial in my case as I have even managed to invent within limits HEALTH. I am a 50% working dezigner, some of your kids or grand kids may be wearing my garments right now, and a 50% occupied treasure trove hunter and ardent Archeologist.
I am very comfortable financially and have spent the past few years learning to be a descriptive writer, describing my many adventures in a way that I am told by many should be published. What NOW ?

 

[zoobyshoe]

1.What's your opinion of Vegemite?

2.Ever seen a yowie?

 

[dowser501]

I used to think that some primitive animal instinct to find water might be involved, but now, the only consistent explanation would seem to be magnetic field variations.
__________________
The most uncanny and correct theory ( above) By Ivan is the closest explanation I could ever give after two decades of study of the subject of mental channeling known commonly as dowsing.

If I had ever finished schooling and was a professor giving exams on this subject Ivan would get full marks.

 

[dowser501]

Zooby, a zowie is as mythical as a zooby.
Vegemite was invented doing the great depression to add vitamins plus milk to malnourished school kids. I havn't eaten the stuff for maybe 60 years.
I feel I am losing my thread on this thread.

 

[(Q)]

A first year student may be able to tear my theories to pieces, however they are not theories so where do we go from here?

Nowhere, you’re story does not check out, its all nonsense.

I will admit that as an inventor, I have managed to give myself an edge which means that I can dowse under conditions that are impossible for normal demonstrations, which also means I can avoid making a fool of myself.

It’s fairly obvious you invented this ‘dowsing’ story so most likely your other stories are also manufactured.

Instead of knocking me, try and help me understand my ability to the stage where it can be described in black and white.

These forums are full of people with the ability to write fiction who try to pass it off as truth, but the reasons they do so are not clear and vary with each individual. Maybe, you’re just bored.

You are the guys with the education, and I just make things happen

Yes, but this is a science forum, not a place to practice writing fairy tales. It’s entertaining at first but quickly becomes rather futile.

I am very comfortable financially and have spent the past few years learning to be a descriptive writer, describing my many adventures in a way that I am told by many should be published. What NOW ?

You might want to consider doing a bit of background research in order to make your stories somewhat more plausible. It always helps when you use terms and descriptions that fit closely with the subject matter of the story rather than just making it up as you go along.

If I had ever finished schooling and was a professor giving exams on this subject Ivan would get full marks.

Birds of a feather…

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Birds of a feather…

I see that you are still with us O' feathered one.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I see that you are still with us O' feathered one.

(Q) is a delicate sealed vessel struggling to contain a mass of nutty notions, a pot waiting to crack. I think he secretly believes in the "wee folk".

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Now now, let's be nice.

 

[Tsu]

Nowhere, you’re story does not check out, its all nonsense.

So is your word usage and sentence structure.

 

[Arctic Fox]

You need to understand that to any scientist this sounds like nonsense. Can you supply any supporting information here? We are glad to consider your claims, but any theories and references must be supported with links, papers, data, or other evidence that can be tested and verified, otherwise, I would say that your theory has really big problems.

Well, hold on a minute. Maybe this is something we could test as well. Find a good dowser, tape a few magnets to his/her head, check the results.

I do have a feeling that the Earth’s magnetic field, as well as any stray fields, may have an impact on this one way or the other. I think I saw somewhere in here about someone getting headaches when around high voltage lines - I have this same problem. Could be a link somewhere... :)

Ivan: check your PM if it’s not too late.

 

[JohnDubYa]

RE: "I once spent 3 weeks in the deserts of Arizona looking for 3 bars of gold that someone swore was out there. Stupid old man."

I don't know about that. He had you looking for three weeks for gold that didn't even exist. :)

 

[(Q)]

I see that you are still with us O' feathered one

And I come back to find cheap shots have been taken against the humble Q. Let's look at them shall we?

Zooby sez:

(Q) is a delicate sealed vessel struggling to contain a mass of nutty notions, a pot waiting to crack. I think he secretly believes in the "wee folk".

*crack*

tsunami sez:

So is your word usage and sentence structure.

Now, here we have someone who must have stayed up half the night thinking up this lame remark. Of course, it’s a case of the pot calling the kettle black. It’s also extremely poor netiquette to complain about syntax, especially when the one complaining needs to learn a thing or two on the subject. It’s off topic and adds absolutely nothing to the conversation. And it’s a flame.

All in all a post written in very poor taste indeed.

And the author is supposed to be a PF contributor – what a joke!

Hey tsunami, have you nothing to say? Could you possible see fit to squeeze a thought or two out of that gray matter you keep upstairs?

 

[(Q)]

I do have a feeling that the Earth’s magnetic field, as well as any stray fields, may have an impact on this one way or the other.

A ‘feeling?’ What about evidence, got any of that?

I think I saw somewhere in here about someone getting headaches when around high voltage lines - I have this same problem.

Why would anyone get headaches around high voltage lines? What is the connection?

 

[Arctic Fox]

Ivan, think someone should lock this topic and ban (q)?

This seems to be going off topic.

 

[(Q)]

Ivan, think someone should lock this topic and ban (q)?

Ban me? You want to ban me because I asked you a couple of questions?

Perhaps you have an anger management issue if something as simple as being asked a question leads you to hostility.

Why don't you tell us what you REALLY think?