Early Warning System for Sunspots & Solar Storms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the early warning systems for sunspots and solar storms, focusing on the techniques used to predict solar activity and the implications of solar phenomena on Earth. Participants explore the methodologies of sunspot detection, the historical context of solar activity, and the potential impacts of solar storms on modern technology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants discuss a new technique called time-distance helioseismology, which analyzes acoustic wave propagation to detect emerging sunspots within the Sun's interior.
  • Others highlight that predictions of sunspot cycles have historically shown poor accuracy, particularly from cycle 23 to the current cycle 24.
  • One participant mentions a correlation between space weather predictions of coronal mass ejections and variations in radioactive decay rates, suggesting that these decay rates may not be immune to external influences.
  • A later reply references the historical Carrington Event and its effects, raising concerns about the vulnerability of modern power grids to similar solar flares or coronal mass ejections.
  • Some participants express skepticism regarding the reliability of certain predictions and the need for credible references to support claims made in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the effectiveness of sunspot prediction methods and the implications of solar activity. There is no consensus on the accuracy of predictions or the relationship between solar phenomena and radioactive decay rates.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the accuracy of sunspot predictions and the historical context of solar activity cycles. There are unresolved questions regarding the reliability of certain scientific claims and the need for further evidence to support them.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying solar physics, space weather, and the impacts of solar activity on technology and the environment.

Astronuc
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Sunspot-Spotting Method May Improve Solar Storm Warnings
http://www.space.com/12668-sunspot-prediction-solar-storms-warning.html

Early-warning system for sunspots
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/46914

PhysicsWorld said:
Emerging storms
Now, Stathis Llonidis and colleagues at Stanford University have taken this theory as the basis for a technique to locate the emergence of sunspots within the interior of the Sun. Llonidis' team uses a specific helioseismology technique – called time–distance helioseismology – to analyse the time taken for these acoustic waves to propagate through the solar interior.

The technique involves selecting a pair of points on the solar surface separated by a specific distance between 100,000–200,000 km. Some of the acoustic waves excited near the location of one of these points will propagate 60,000 km into the Sun before returning to the surface near the location of the corresponding point. It usually takes about one hour for the acoustic waves to make this journey. However, if the waves pass through an emerging sunspot, then they speed up and the journey time is reduced slightly – for a large sunspot region this effect is about 12–16 s.

AIAA said:
Stathis Ilonidis used SOHO and Solar Dynamics Observatory satellite data to make the advanced predictions.

Sun storms 'could be more disruptive within decades'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14580995

BBC said:
The work, published in Geophysical Research Letters, predicts that once the Sun shifts towards an era of lower solar activity, more hazardous radiation will reach Earth.

The team says the Sun is currently at a grand solar maximum.

This phase began in the 1920s - and has lasted throughout the space age.

Mike Lockwood, professor of space environment physics at Reading, said: "All the evidence suggests that the Sun will shortly exit from a grand solar maximum that has persisted since before the start of the space age.

"In a grand solar maximum, the peaks of the 11-year sunspot cycle are larger and the average number of solar flares and associated events such as coronal mass ejections are greater.

Other threads (some in Astronomy and others in Astrophysics) about sunspots or related solar physics:

Solar Cycle & Explanation for Recent Changes? (Mar-May 2007)
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=162450

Disappearing Sunspots, Minus 50 Gauss/yr
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=413588

Solar Cycle 24
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=363692

Sunspots
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=392837

Density of solar flares?
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=187795
 
Last edited:
Astronomy news on Phys.org
Thanks Astro!
 
Important new science and some nifty video from the venerable SOHO, newer SDO mission, and those wonderful folks at NASA. Link to new Science paper.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/25aug_sunspotbreakthrough/
Astronomers have been studying sunspots for more than 400 years, and they have pieced together their basic characteristics: Sunspots are planet-sized islands of magnetism that float in solar plasma. Although the details are still debated, researchers generally agree that sunspots are born deep inside the sun via the action of the sun’s inner magnetic dynamo. From there they bob to the top, carried upward by magnetic buoyancy; a sunspot emerging at the stellar surface is a bit like a submarine emerging from the ocean depths.

In the August 19th issue of Science, Ilonidis and co-workers Junwei Zhao and Alexander Kosovichev announced that they can see some sunspots while they are still submerged.

Their analysis technique is called "time-distance helioseismology2

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/333/6045/993.abstract

Respectfully submitted,
Steve
 
Sunspot predictions do not have a good accuracy record. Specifically, predictions from cycle 23 and earlier cycles to our current cycle 24 have been all over the place. However, space weather predictions of coronal mass ejections seem highly correlated with variations of radioactive decay rates observed as much as several days in advance.

Radio active decay rates are supposedly immune to outside influences. Recent observations show this is not the case. The decay rate is experimentally seen to vary prior to coronal mass ejections, as well as seasonal variations during the Earth's elliptical orbit.
 
tvscientist said:
...space weather predictions of coronal mass ejections seem highly correlated with variations of radioactive decay rates observed as much as several days in advance.

Radio active decay rates are supposedly immune to outside influences. Recent observations show this is not the case. The decay rate is experimentally seen to vary prior to coronal mass ejections, as well as seasonal variations during the Earth's elliptical orbit.

Thank you for posting this, but it should best be accompanied by an acceptable reference per form rules. Not long ago, I posted this same information elsewhere in the forum, citing a PF forum acceptable reference to back it up. Nobody who responded could get over the "giggle factor."

Respectfully,
Steve
 
I've recently read Stuart Clark's excellent work, "The Sun Kings: The Unexpected Tragedy of Richard Carrington and the Tale of How Modern Astronomy Began".

Apart from blood red aurorae down to the Carribbean, and telegraph paper being set alight by the wires, the Carrington Event didn't cause too much stir. Even so, another such flare/CME would be a stern test of our modern power grid to withstand without advance warning, I agree. I have searched, so far in vain, to discover if power grid transformers are still being manufactured in the USA. Do you know?

Respectfully yours,
Steve
 

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