EM wave from electrons V protons

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the theoretical aspects of electromagnetic (EM) wave generation by accelerating protons compared to electrons, including potential communication applications and detection methods for radio emissions from protons and antimatter sources.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that accelerating protons could create an EM wave similar to that generated by electrons at the same frequency, but with a phase difference.
  • One participant notes that it is easier to generate radio waves for communication using electrons and that a radio receiver does not differentiate the source of the EM wave.
  • Another participant questions whether there is a detectable difference between EM waves generated by positive and negative sources, suggesting that it might reveal information about the accelerating particle.
  • There is a discussion about whether a radio telescope could be designed to detect and discriminate signals from antimatter sources, with one participant suggesting that characteristic radiation from electron-positron annihilation could indicate the presence of antimatter.
  • Some participants clarify that while experiments have been conducted with protons, they do not function like traditional radio broadcasts.
  • It is mentioned that natural radio emissions from protons exist, but they are more complex than those from pulsars.
  • One participant emphasizes that radio astronomy relies on physical models in addition to the incoming radiation to infer the source of the signals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of EM wave generation by protons versus electrons, the feasibility of detecting signals from antimatter, and the characteristics of radio emissions. No consensus is reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of distinguishing between signals from matter and antimatter and the limitations of current detection methods. There are also unresolved questions regarding the specific characteristics of the radiation emitted by different particles.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring theoretical physics, radio astronomy, particle physics, and communication technologies involving electromagnetic waves.

houlahound
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this is theoretical (and possibly stupid) question;

accelerating protons would create an EM wave equivalent to an EM wave generated by electrons at same frequency but the amplitude would be opposite, is that possible.

has anyone made a communication circuit from accelerating protons?

are there any natural "radio" emissions that are made from protons (kind of like a pulsar) and are the same circuits used to detect them as electron generated waves of same frequency?
 
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1. yes
2. yes
3. yes and no and kinda.

It is lots easier to generate radio waves for communication by accelerating electrons in a wire.
A radio receiver only cares about the EM wave, it does not care or even know how the EM wave is generated.
 
not sure which comments the yes and no's match with :smile:

I thought there may be a detectable difference between a + source and a - source which could tell something about what particle is doing the accelerating.
 
my question really relates to if a radio telescope could be made to detect and discriminate anti-matter/positron source.
 
accelerating protons would create an EM wave equivalent to an EM wave generated by electrons at same frequency but the amplitude would be opposite, is that possible.
yes

technically, the amplitude cannot be "opposite" - I took your meaning to be that the phase will be 180deg different from an electron undergoing the same exact acceleration.

has anyone made a communication circuit from accelerating protons?
yes
... this should be "kinda" it's not like a radio broadcast but experiments have been done where protons are accelerated and their radiation is observed ... this communicates stuff about the protons and the equipment.

are there any natural "radio" emissions that are made from protons
yes

(kind of like a pulsar)
no. astronomical objects are usually more complicated.

and are the same circuits used to detect them as electron generated waves of same frequency?
kinda
again - the circuit only cares about the EM wave, not the source. It's "kinda" because the natural radiation is usually detected by specialist equipment but it normally works by the same principles as, say, your phone.

I thought there may be a detectable difference between a + source and a - source which could tell something about what particle is doing the accelerating.
No. Not just from looking at the EM radiation coming from it. There are zillions of ways to get a particular EM wave.
 
my question really relates to if a radio telescope could be made to detect and discriminate anti-matter/positron source.
A radio telescope cannot tell the difference between radio waves from normal matter or from anti-matter... so you have to get clever.

You need to find something characteristic about the radio that can only come from antimatter ... i.e. the electron-positron annihilation produces a characteristic frequency radiation so a lot of that going on somewhere would show as a curious source of this frequency. It could be made by something else, but that would be even more curious and Occam's razor... So 1.022MeV photons from a spot in the sky would be an indication that there is a LOT of antimatter off thataways.

This is just like how we know that particular light was generated by electron transitions in hydrogen... in this case it's the characteristic pattern that the radiation has that gives it away, along with the assumption that the source is naturally occurring.

See what I mean - radio-astronomy uses a bunch of physical models as well as the incoming light to figure stuff out about what probably caused the light.
 
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great explanation thanks
 

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