Energy calculation in Simple harmonic motion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of sine and cosine functions in the context of simple harmonic motion (SHM), exploring their mathematical representation and physical significance in relation to potential and kinetic energy. Participants delve into the underlying differential equations and the nature of oscillatory motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that sine and cosine are solutions to the differential equations governing SHM, specifically referencing the equation mx'' + kx = 0.
  • Others suggest that sine and cosine functions provide a way to quantify circular motion, which relates to the oscillatory behavior of the system.
  • A participant mentions that potential energy is associated with force and displacement, while kinetic energy relates to velocity, leading to the use of cosine for potential energy and sine for kinetic energy.
  • Some participants express confusion about the representation of sine and cosine, with one stating that they describe how variables are related rather than representing physical quantities directly.
  • There are multiple inquiries about the significance of sine and cosine in the context of SHM, indicating a desire for deeper understanding.
  • Discussions about gender assumptions in responses arise, with participants emphasizing the importance of inclusive language in the forum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of understanding and confusion regarding the role of sine and cosine in SHM. There is no consensus on the deeper implications of these functions or their representation, and the discussion includes both technical explanations and personal perspectives on language use.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the mathematical nature of sine and cosine without resolving the broader implications of their use in physical contexts. The discussion also touches on the importance of inclusive language, which remains a separate but relevant issue within the forum.

saba sha
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Hello
why we use cosine and sine in simple harmonic motion?
why we use particularly cosine with potential energy and sine with kinetic energy of simple harmonic oscillator?
regards
 
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The general solution for position and velocity is a sum of a cosine and a sine. If the starting conditions are not relevant, you can choose the origin of time (t=0) such that one term is a cosine and the other one is a sine.
 
thanks sir
but why we use these sine and cosine?
what these sine and cosine represent?
 
What do you mean with "represent"? They are the solutions to the differential equations which describe the motion of the system.
 
saba sha said:
thanks sir
but why we use these sine and cosine?
what these sine and cosine represent?

Unless you specifically know the gender of the person you are responding, please do not assume that all of us here are males. You are insulting the many female physicists, physics students, and participants in this forum.

Zz.
 
Mathematically, as mfb said, the summation of a sine and cosine is the solution to the differential equation that governs simple harmonic motion. For a mechanical oscillator, this equation is mx''+kx = 0, and the general solution is x(t) = c1*cos(wt+p)+c2*sin(wt+p). If you want a more intuitive understanding, you must realize that sine and cosine provide us a way to quantify circular motion. Conveniently, we can express the movement of an oscillator as a function of cosines and sines that have a constant angular frequency.

Here is a good animation that will hopefully make things more clear:
In that animation, picture the oscillator as being the up and down movement of that rod as it goes around the circle, which is simply the sine wave.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Or you can say that the very definition of a Simple Harmonic Motion is that where the position, velocity, acceleration of the particle vary sinusoidally with time
 
ZapperZ said:
Unless you specifically know the gender of the person you are responding, please do not assume that all of us here are males. You are insulting the many female physicists, physics students, and participants in this forum.

Zz.

Yes ma'am.
 
ZapperZ said:
Unless you specifically know the gender of the person you are responding, please do not assume that all of us here are males. You are insulting the many female physicists, physics students, and participants in this forum.

Zz.

! are you going to check every post for such 'serious' infringments ??
What about dorks ?
Assuming someone is male is not an insult to anyone unless someone wants to take it as an insult.
Have there been many complaints about this?
Come on look at the questions!
 
  • #10
Back to the issue...Potential energy is to do with force x displacement...if the expression for displacement involves Cos(ωt) (x = ACosωt ?) then it is no surprise.
Kinetic energy is to do with velocity and v = dx/dt so if x is a Cos function then v is a Sin function v = ωASin(ωt).
Hope this helps sir/madam
 
  • #11
ZapperZ said:
Unless you specifically know the gender of the person you are responding, please do not assume that all of us here are males. You are insulting the many female physicists, physics students, and participants in this forum.

Zz.

Would "Oh wise one" be appropriate?
This gender thing is, indeed, a general problem. The word "they" tends do be used for "he or she" and it is a bit gramatically unsatisfactory. I wonder whether we could have a ruling on this from the boffins in PF Towers?
 
  • #12
saba sha said:
thanks sir
but why we use these sine and cosine?
what these sine and cosine represent?

Sine and Cosine are Mathematical Functions. They do not actually represent anything but 'describe' how variables are related to each other. In this case it's how one variable (a general displacement) varies with another variable (time).
I could give an alternative verbal description of a harmonic oscillation: the displacement varies regularly on either side of a mean position, as time progresses, and this variation is smooth, is faster whilst the displacement is at the mean position and blah blah, etc. etc. . . . . . but the mathematical description is more accurate and allows you to calculate and predict in detail.

I know Maths can often annoy people because it is difficult to grasp but without it, Science is very limited. You need to 'join the Maths club' at some level, at least, of you want to advance knowledge to any useful level.
 

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