Entropy & Electrons: No Spin Exist?

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    Electrons Entropy Spin
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between entropy and electrons, particularly questioning the concept of "dead electrons" and their spin properties. Participants explore the nature of elementary particles, their transformations, and the applicability of entropy to individual particles.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether elemental particles, like electrons, are subject to entropy and what is meant by "dead electrons" with "no spin."
  • One participant asserts that electrons have an intrinsic spin of 1/2, which can only change direction, not disappear.
  • Another participant clarifies that elementary particles can change into other particles but must obey conservation laws, indicating that an electron cannot simply lose its spin.
  • It is noted that the concept of entropy applies to large numbers of particles and does not directly pertain to single elementary particles.
  • One participant compares the original question to asking about friction between electrons, suggesting that it is a misunderstanding of physical concepts.
  • There is a repeated emphasis that electrons cannot be described with terms like "red," "blue," or "dead," reinforcing the idea of their intrinsic properties.
  • Interactions with other particles, including photons, are mentioned as the means by which electrons can transform, but not in isolation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the formulation of the initial question and the concept of "dead electrons." There is no consensus on the implications of entropy for individual electrons, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity of the original inquiry.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations in the discussion include the ambiguity of terms like "dead electrons" and the need for clearer definitions of concepts related to entropy and particle transformation. The applicability of statistical laws to individual particles is also noted as a potential area of confusion.

Charles Brown
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Are elemental particles subject to entropy? Are there dead electrons "no spin".
 
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Could you clarify what your first question means?

There is no such thing as a dead electron. Its spin (1/2) is an intrinsic property and its only change would be direction (1/2 -> -1/2). Electrons in atoms have various energy levels.
 
This question is poorly constructed. I think you are asking, "Does an elementary decay?" Yes, elementary particles change into other elementary particles all the time, some more quickly than others. But they must still obey conservation laws as they do so, so an electron could not just loose its spin. Elementary particles are, by definition, elementary. You can not have a red electron or a blue electron or a minty electron, a tired electron, or a dead electron. All photons in the same quantum state are identical. The only way to intrinsically change an electron is to transform it into something else.

Now, the part of entropy that deals with an increase of disorder is a statistical law that applies large numbers of particles, so it does not directly apply to a single elementary particle.
 
It's like asking, "What is the friction between two electrons?" The question does not make sense because friction is a phenomenological description of the average behavior of a large collection of particles. Two electrons will repel each other through the regular Coulombic/electric force, but it looks much different than friction.
 
Chrisbaird
the question was poorly constructed. The question is what force causes the transformation of the electron.
 
You can not have a red electron or a blue electron or a minty electron, a tired electron, or a dead electron.http://www.uklv.info/g.php
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Charles Brown said:
Chrisbaird
the question was poorly constructed. The question is what force causes the transformation of the electron.

Electrons get transformed by interactions with other particles (including photons), but not in isolation.
 

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