Equations of motion accounting for drag

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the equations of motion in the context of drag forces, particularly how to modify standard kinematic equations to account for drag as described by the drag equation. The original poster expresses difficulty in understanding how to incorporate drag into their calculations, given their limited background in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to calculate velocity and acceleration while considering drag but struggles to find a useful approach. Some participants discuss the implications of changing forces on acceleration and question what generalized forms of the equations might exist for variable acceleration due to drag.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring the relationship between drag and acceleration, with some providing insights into Newton's second law and the nature of forces involved. There is a recognition that the standard equations of motion may not apply directly due to the variable nature of drag, leading to discussions about differential equations and potential solutions.

Contextual Notes

The original poster notes that this inquiry is not a formal homework assignment, indicating a desire for understanding rather than a specific solution. There is also mention of the drag force being dependent on velocity, which complicates the application of constant acceleration equations.

Egaston
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Homework Statement



I need something like the equations of motion, but accounting for drag as given by the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_equation" . Particularly for:

Homework Equations



[tex]& v && = v_0+at \qquad[/tex]
[tex]& s && = s_0 + v_0t + \tfrac12 at^2 \qquad[/tex]

The Attempt at a Solution



I have racked my brains for hours on this but can't make any progress. Google doesn't seem to be giving me much either (at least with my search terms). I am not formally educated in physics at all so there might be some obvious solution that I am missing.

I've tried to work out velocity by calculating drag and acceleration as a series of updates and seeing if it approaches any sort of useful value, but no matter what I try the equations always end up approaching either 0 or v0+at when I increase the frequency of the updates.

This isn't really a homework assignment, but this seems to be the only part of the forums suitable for these sorts of questions. Assistance would be really appreciated.
 
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Egaston;2156294[tex said:
& v && = v_0+at \qquad[/tex]
[tex]& s && = s_0 + v_0t + \tfrac12 at^2 \qquad[/tex]

These equations are usually used if the acceleration is constant. By Newton's second law F=ma, if the acceleration is constant, the force must be constant.

In the drag equation, the force depends on the speed, hence the force will change in time as the speed changes in time, hence the acceleration will not be constant in time.
 
Ah, of course. It makes sense when you say it like that. Since that is the case, what should I be looking at instead? Are there generalized forms of these equations for when acceleration is dependent on velocity or time?
 
Newton's second law: F=ma=mx'' (x'' is the second derivative of position, which is by definition the acceleration)

Then you have to specify what the forces are in the situation you are interested in, eg:
Gravity near the Earth's surface: F=mg
Simple drag: F=-kv=-kx' (x' is the first derivative of position, which is by definition the velocity)

Putting these together you get:
mg-kx'=mx'',
which is an equation containing derivatives of position x (ie. a differential equation in x).

Once you specify the initial position and velocity, you can solve the equation for position x as a function of time.
 
Ooops, the simple drag goes as the square of the velocity, not linearly.

Anyway, the idea is the same, and you can try at the first five equations in Long and Weiss's http://www.math.gatech.edu/~weiss/pub/v2II.pdf .
 
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