Falsified Resume Forces Resignation of MIT Dean

[Ivan Seeking]

The Massachusetts Institute of Technology's dean of admissions is resigning because she falsified her credentials, claiming she had degrees she had not earned. Marilee Jones had been an outspoken critic of the pressures young people face to build impressive resumes. [continued with audio report]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9870469

It is hard to imagine that someone could pull this off at MIT. One would think that someone would have noticed something.

 

[G01]

She worked there for 28 years. Not only did she con her way into the job, but she made a career out of it. Wow...

I have no idea how she got away with it for so long...does MIT not do some kind of checks with resumes??

 

[Reshma]

It seems she doesn't even have an undergraduate degree. Maybe it wasn't a requirement when she joined the institute. Anyhow, it is amazing that she evaded her true academic background for nearly 3 decades.

 

[Anttech]

Doesnt this show you that a degree isn't so so so relevant to the skills it needs to perform a job for 23 years.

Go on her, American dream and all that

 

[Integral]

Doesnt this show you that a degree isn't so so so relevant to the skills it needs to perform a job for 23 years.

Go on her, American dream and all that

Wow, now that is a classical fallacious argument. I believe it is called arguing from the specific to the general. You simply cannot make that generalization based on the given information. Well at least anyone who cares about logical development, can't.

 

[quantumdude]

Amazing that this could happen at MIT. I work at a community college, and if a new hire's transcripts aren't in within 60 days of starting work, paychecks get withheld. I can't believe that we have a smarter system in place than MIT does. Dummies.

 

[Art]

I wonder how it came to light? Did someone run a background check? If so why?

 

[Astronuc]

The person in question is co-authoring a book, "Less Stress, More Success: A New Approach to Guiding Your Teen Through College Admissions and Beyond," with Dr. Kenneth Ginsburg, an associate professor of pediatrics at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine.

"I misrepresented my academic degrees when I first applied to MIT 28 years ago, and did not have the courage to correct my résumé when I applied for my current job, or at any time since," she said in a statement issued through the university. "I am deeply sorry for this, and for disappointing so many in the MIT community and beyond who supported me, believed in me, and who have given me extraordinary opportunities."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/26/america/web0426-mit.php

I don't condone what she did and she has paid a price for that. On the other hand, she was apparently quite successful, and I tend to agree with her position on college admissions.

Other than mentioning that she doesn't have degrees, I have not read how it is that this came to light. Apparently there was an investigation into her credentials.

"CNN has a report that the Dean of Admissions at MIT has resigned her post after admitting to lying about her academic record. 'Marilee Jones, who joined the staff of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) in 1979 to lead the recruitment of women at the university, stepped down from her post after admitting that she had misrepresented her academic degrees to the institute, according to a statement posted on MIT's Web site.' The school had recently received information about her credentials and the subsequent investigation uncovered the misrepresentations. Question is, why did it take 28 years?"

http://slashdot.org/articles/07/04/28/1929251.shtml

Jones was named dean of admissions at MIT in 1997 and received MIT's highest award for administrators, the "MIT Excellence Award for Leading Change." She was also the 2006 winner of the "Gordon Y Billard Award" given "for special service of outstanding merit" performed for the school.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/04/27/mit.dean/index.html

 

[cronxeh]

I don't condone what she did and she has paid a price for that.

No, she hasnt. MIT should sue her for the wages she has received adjusted by degree-based vs non-degree based salary. This is a fraud not only from the private organization's perspective but also collectively from all the students that have been denied admission solely by her signature.

How would you like to go to your doctor's office for 10 years, be diagnosed with bipolar syndrome, prescribed bunch of medications (lets go with Depakote for bipolar disorder) - lose hair as a direct result of that medication and have a severe impact of such hair loss on your sex appeal, your job promotions, and overall your mental state? On top of that to find out that the doctor is not really a doctor but a guy who dropped out of High School and came up with a clever plan.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=518567][/PLAIN]
Profiles of Jones in the New York Times and Boston Globe last year said she earned bachelor’s and master’s degrees in chemistry and biology from RPI. A short biography on the Web site of the National Association of College Admission Counseling referred to her as “Dr. Marilee Jones, Ph.D.” and said she had degrees in biology and chemistry from RPI and Albany Medical, without specifying further. She was scheduled to speak at the association’s annual conference in September.

 

[Astronuc]

No, she hasnt.

She had to resign and her reputation is tarnished, not to mention the humiliation.

Marilee Jones did not start out as Dean of Admissions. Ostensibly, she worked up to that position. Presumably, she was one of many considered and got the job as Dean, not based on degree, but the 18 years of prior performance.

I am not sure I'd agree with the doctor analogy, since I tend to investigate things like medications. I don't think anyone has challenged her competence - just her integrity.

As I mentioned, I do not condone her behavior.

 

[Knavish]

cronxeh,

Apparently she was doing her job well, though. If anything, this shows that degrees are not what are important for a job such as this.

 

[Art]

I saw a poll on Sky News a while ago wherein around 20% of professional people admitted to falsifying or seriously exagerating their qualifications and/or their experience in order to gain a position. It struck me at the time how little verification seems to be done at the interview stage.

Following Marilee Jones' high profile exposure I wouldn't be surprised to see a rush of such incidents as other institutions perform background checks on their staff.

Edit found a link related to it

One In Five Lie On CV
Updated: 12:07, Monday October 09, 2006

One in five jobseekers lie on their CV, with fibs including false academic qualifications, new research has shown.

A study of 3,700 job applications showed a similar number leave out court appearances or convictions.

Stretching the truth...?The Risk Advisory Group (RAG) said its study suggested an increasing number of people are lying in their job applications.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30400-13546059,00.html

There have been several high profile cases of fraud in the national health service in the UK e.g.

Omid Amidi Mazahri was sentenced to two years imprisonment on 3 March 2005 at Southwark Crown Court for impersonating a dentist and undertaking dental work at surgeries across South London. Between March 2002 and June 2003 it is estimated that Mr Amidi-Mazahri treated at least 600 patients at his partner's - Ms Mojhan Azari - surgeries in Norbury and Tulse Hill. She was jailed for 12 months for falsifying claims and allowing Mr Amidi-Mazahri to work at her surgeries.

and

Barian Baluchi, an Iranian-born asylum seeker, who was sentenced to 10 years imprisonment on Wednesday 26 January 2005 at Middlesex Guildhall Crown Court for impersonating a doctor and defrauding the taxpayer and charities of and estimated £1.2 million. The sentence followed a joint-investigation by the NHS Counter Fraud Service and the Metropolitan Police.

 

[Evo]

Such a shame, she's obviously very qualified and seems truly devoted to her job.

 

[physics girl phd]

I agree that one shouldn't falsify one's CV... but I also have concern about the environment in which she felt forced to do so... as stated, she has been "an outspoken critic of the pressures young people face to build impressive resumes." Perhaps given her record of sucess, she should have been more of a chance to explain herself, issue an apology, and have some lesser reprimand take place. Would MIT expel a student for lying about some extracurricular leadership?

 

[arunma]

I agree that one shouldn't falsify one's CV... but I also have concern about the environment in which she felt forced to do so... as stated, she has been "an outspoken critic of the pressures young people face to build impressive resumes." Perhaps given her record of sucess, she should have been more of a chance to explain herself, issue an apology, and have some lesser reprimand take place. Would MIT expel a student for lying about some extracurricular leadership?

Just an FYI. In this case it's quite a bit more than falsification of some arcane detail on a resume or CV. In this case she lied about having an undergraduate and medical degree. She claimed to have attended two undergraduate institutions, and one medical college. It turns out that one of the undergraduate instititions has a record of her taking some classes as a non-matriculated student, but never completing a degree program. The other undergraduate school, and the medical college, don't have any record of her at all.

 

[Anttech]

Wow, now that is a classical fallacious argument. I believe it is called arguing from the specific to the general. You simply cannot make that generalization based on the given information. Well at least anyone who cares about logical development, can't.

Intergral,
for it to be a classical fallacious argument, I should have been meaning to deceive you, which is not the case at all. I can't quiet understand how it is a logical fallacy either. Generalizing is just that, it doesn't go hand in hand with an error in logic.


The point I was trying to make is that this is an example where the lack of a degree did not get in the way of her being able to adequately (more than adequately?) perform her function for 23 years. Which does show that degree's are not so important to performing a function, in this case.

Now to enforce that, and widen the argument in my industry most of the people I work with have a vast array of differing degrees, most of which are not in IT, however that is the area I work in. Some of the best Engineers in fact don't have any degree. There lack of IT degree's doesn't hamper them being good at their job.

 

[cronxeh]

As someone who lives and drives in NYC everyday, I can tell you why this sort of thing really bothers me. Imagine 3 car lanes, and only the right one can (according to the traffic signs) exit into the highway. You are in that lane, slowly progressing forward, waiting your turn just like a car behind you and in front of you to exit and proceed onto your destination. You've paid your dues and by all probabilities and laws of society and physics you are sure to get off after 10 or so cars in front of you do so. Now the NYC reality: every M**F*** on the middle and left lane tries to cut you off and merge into the right lane creating a traffic situation, the entire right lane you are in now comes to a hault and the serene order is disrupted. You are now forced to deal with the queuing theory and your exit time has been considerable increased. You are MAD AS HELL because the just system doesn't work. Its anarchy.

Tell me - why should someone who was 2 minutes behind you now be ahead of you just because they break a rule and cause delays for others? This woman is no better - and if she was 'good' at her job imagine how much better someone else would've been who was meant for that job. Someone more qualified, who would've had a BETTER outcome for MIT in the long run. Remember that just because someone is good doesn't mean they are the best. And it certainly doesn't mean that they are not in fact the worst. This woman could in fact be THE worst person for this particular job. Hell, what if I had her job - I guarantee you I would've done a better job - yet I don't want that job, but I'm sure there are those who are more deserving and would be more fit for the job and this is not a grocery shop we are talking about... *puts on 300 "this is Sparta!" mood * -- THIS IS MIT! The god damned BEST (supposedly) institution in these United States. Who does she think she is to tamper with such noble causes as highest education? Why, this woman could've single handedly screwed this entire country with her blatant disregard for idealistic principles and lies and deceits she used to get her ways.

I despise people like her.

 

[Evo]

This woman is no better - and if she was 'good' at her job imagine how much better someone else would've been who was meant for that job. Someone more qualified, who would've had a BETTER outcome for MIT in the long run. Remember that just because someone is good doesn't mean they are the best. And it certainly doesn't mean that they are not in fact the worst. This woman could in fact be THE worst person for this particular job.

Actually she was outstanding in this job and recognized quite highly for it. So much for your rant. You should check things out before you make wild, baseless accusations, I'm surprised at you cronxeh.

Jones was named dean of admissions at MIT in 1997 and received MIT's highest award for administrators, the "MIT Excellence Award for Leading Change." She was also the 2006 winner of the "Gordon Y Billard Award" given "for special service of outstanding merit" performed for the school.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/04/27/mit.dean/index.html

 

[Delzac]

Well, she shouldn't have lied 28 years ago, true. But given her outstanding performance, i am quite surprise that MIT is not gracious enough to settle it all with a resignation, but to the extend of suing her for her wages? Unsympathetic people.

 

[Astronuc]

Clay said MIT now checks credentials of new hires but did not generally do so when Jones first applied to work there. The first job she applied for, as an administrative assistant, did not require a college degree, but Clay said Jones claimed to have one. He said she did not correct that claim during her appointment process as dean in 1997.

http://www.dailyadvance.com/nation/content/shared-gen/ap/National/MIT_Dean.html

I don't believe MIT is planning on suing Ms. Jones for her wages - unless I missed something. If that were the case, then MIT would have to consider refunding all tuition based on their inability to appropriately screen administration and faculty.

And MIT is not necessarily the best in all areas - although they and others might like to think so.

I've actually seen better at other places in certain areas.

 

[russ_watters]

I agree that one shouldn't falsify one's CV... but I also have concern about the environment in which she felt forced to do so... as stated, she has been "an outspoken critic of the pressures young people face to build impressive resumes."

'Competition is stressful, so I lied'? You can't be serious? And now she's writing a book essentially trying to justify her cheating? That's a joke. What kind of message does that send?

Would MIT expel a student for lying about some extracurricular leadership?

I would think that MIT would expel a student if they found out he/she falsified a high school transcript, yes.

Fair, appropriate accountability in a situation like this is to not allow someone to be rewarded for cheating. You guys are missing the point about performance: It doesn't matter that she was good at her job, in a competitive environment, odds are a bunch of people who applied would have been near-equally as good and perhaps even better. She got something she didn't deserve by lying. That's pretty much the definition of fraud. If people do that in sports, they get stripped of their accomplishments because it renders the accomplishments meaningless.

 

[Moonbear]

Actually, MIT probably has no choice than to fire her and sue her for back pay. If they didn't, then every other job applicant who was rejected for not having those credentials, or every employee who is receiving lower pay scales for the same or better credentials (actual, not faked) could sue them for not receiving fair wages. When certain positions and pay scales are based on degrees, and you don't have those degrees, then yes, they should be reimbursed for it.

 

[Evo]

Actually, MIT probably has no choice than to fire her and sue her for back pay. If they didn't, then every other job applicant who was rejected for not having those credentials, or every employee who is receiving lower pay scales for the same or better credentials (actual, not faked) could sue them for not receiving fair wages. When certain positions and pay scales are based on degrees, and you don't have those degrees, then yes, they should be reimbursed for it.

In her case though, she wasn't promoted to Dean based on the ancient degrees, but on her actual performance. The problem is that the old degrees were still on her resume because she was afraid if she deleted them it would raise questions. Remember the old saying "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive". MIT can't bend the rules for her because they would be obligated to bend them for everyone. And you're probably right that in an educational environment salary is probably commensurate with degrees, even if those degrees were from 40 years ago.

 

[Moonbear]

In her case though, she wasn't promoted to Dean based on the ancient degrees, but on her actual performance.

Dean searches always require specified degrees plus experience. If she didn't have the degree, she should have never been considered for the position in the first place. That is a pretty big deal, especially for whoever was the "second runner up" in that search who did not get the job. People don't just get "promoted" to Dean. A search is always conducted, she probably just applied as an internal candidate. Hmm...I haven't been asked to provide a transcript for any position since my post-doc days, so I wonder if universities will start requiring those again for all applicants in the aftermath of this incident.

This would be considered a major breach of academic integrity to have falsified her CV and degrees earned to obtain a job. If she was so embarrassed by her past, perhaps she should not have applied for the dean's position in the first place.

 

[Mk]

I'm not sure what I think about this one. Maybe I'm with the minority that thinks it is ok. I despise credentialism, although it may be an easier way to pick good people out of a massive group (assuming no body had to lie). But it also doesn't seem right that she did that. That's lying on your resume, academic or not.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Actually, MIT probably has no choice than to fire her.

Agreed and for the reason you gave.

and sue her for back pay.

I don't see this part.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

The issue is that she lied on her resume. If she had told the truth on her resume, and still was promoted, and then it came out that the promotion was inappropriate, surely the outcome would have been much different.

 

[Anttech]

As someone who lives and drives in NYC everyday, I can tell you why this sort of thing really bothers me. Imagine 3 car lanes, and only the right one can (according to the traffic signs) exit into the highway. You are in that lane, slowly progressing forward, waiting your turn just like a car behind you and in front of you to exit and proceed onto your destination. You've paid your dues and by all probabilities and laws of society and physics you are sure to get off after 10 or so cars in front of you do so. Now the NYC reality: every M**F*** on the middle and left lane tries to cut you off and merge into the right lane creating a traffic situation, the entire right lane you are in now comes to a hault and the serene order is disrupted. You are now forced to deal with the queuing theory and your exit time has been considerable increased. You are MAD AS HELL because the just system doesn't work. Its anarchy.

Tell me - why should someone who was 2 minutes behind you now be ahead of you just because they break a rule and cause delays for others? This woman is no better - and if she was 'good' at her job imagine how much better someone else would've been who was meant for that job. Someone more qualified, who would've had a BETTER outcome for MIT in the long run. Remember that just because someone is good doesn't mean they are the best. And it certainly doesn't mean that they are not in fact the worst. This woman could in fact be THE worst person for this particular job. Hell, what if I had her job - I guarantee you I would've done a better job - yet I don't want that job, but I'm sure there are those who are more deserving and would be more fit for the job and this is not a grocery shop we are talking about... *puts on 300 "this is Sparta!" mood * -- THIS IS MIT! The god damned BEST (supposedly) institution in these United States. Who does she think she is to tamper with such noble causes as highest education? Why, this woman could've single handedly screwed this entire country with her blatant disregard for idealistic principles and lies and deceits she used to get her ways.

I despise people like her.

You obviously arent fit for living in a big city. Man if you get stressed like that at traffic you are going to die young.

 

[edward]

It seems like lately people are using entirely fake diplomas.

A high-ranking career official in the Homeland Security Department apparently obtained her doctorate from a Wyoming diploma mill.

http://www.gcn.com/online/vol1_no1/22294-1.html


edit:
In some cases the federal government had picked up the tab for fake degrees.

The audit agency report cited the cases of five unnamed federal employees who had received degrees from unaccredited schools: three from the National Nuclear Safety Agency, one from the Transportation Department and one from the Homeland Security Department. The facts GAO presented about the DHS official, whom it identified as Employee No. 5, matched the career of Laura Callahan, a senior director in the department's CIO office who recently resigned after being on paid leave following the disclosure by Washington Technology and Government Computer News that her degrees came from a diploma mill.

http://www.washingtontechnology.com/online/1_1/23510-1.html

 

[Astronuc]

Hamilton University, according to an Internet search, is located in Evanston, Wyo. It is affiliated with and supported by Faith in the Order of Nature Fellowship Church, also in Evanston. The state of Wyoming does not license Hamilton because it claims a religious exemption. Oregon has identified Hamilton University as a diploma mill unaccredited by any organization recognized by the U.S. Department of Education.

I wonder if Callahan ever set foot in Wyoming - or did she do course work by mail or on-line?

Hamilton University’s enrollment application and enrollment invitation spell out the simple requirements for students who wish to obtain a Ph.D.

$3,600, payable up front by bank draft or personal check only. Hamilton does not accept credit cards.

Completing one course at home on “personal, business and professional ethics.” Hamilton provides the course workbook, and the student must complete the open-book examination that is included. The school’s materials state the course and test require an average of five to eight hours to complete.

Writing one paper relevant to the area in which the Ph.D. is being sought. The minimum length for the paper is 2,000 words, or roughly four pages, and will “be referred to as a dissertation,” the materials say.

 

[edward]

I wonder if Callahan ever set foot in Wyoming - or did she do course work by mail or on-line?

Diploma mills are all over the net. This one "stands behind their work"

http://www.diplomasandtranscripts.com/

 

[out of whack]

This one "stands behind their work"

http://www.diplomasandtranscripts.com/

It says "The ONLY novelty diploma site with a MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!"

Excellent. If the diploma is not real novelty you can get a refund!

EDIT: ...unless it's a novelty guarantee of course.

EDIT2: Do you suppose they accept novelty money?

 

[cronxeh]

Like russ said her accomplishments are meaningless, and as far as I know if you lied on a federal, state, or city application or misrepresented yourself in any way - that is a felony. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/261747_diplomamill04.html" People not only lose their jobs they go to jail. This is not just about some liberal touchy-feely 'aww she bent the truth let her go' crap. This is about a high school grad who was called a DR for nearly 3 decades and put on this facade of competency. Imagine you are a college student who pays 30 grand in tuition every year (wait a minute.. that sounds like an MIT student). Now you go to classes in hopes of attaining a high quality education. How would you feel if your professor was just a god damned high school graduate? At least she graduated from high school, maybe.

I am outraged that not nearly as many of you supposedly rational people are outraged as much as I am.

 

[Astronuc]

I am outraged that not nearly as many of you supposedly rational people are outraged as much as I am.

I save outrage for the tremendous loss of life in the Iraq War, and the dishonesty and harmful policies of the Bush administration, and the legendary corruption of the Republican controlled 109th Congress. Where's the outrage there? Jones is small potatoes in comparison.

Jones was wrong - no one has argued otherwise. On the other hand, despite the lack of integrity in this matter, it does appear that she is quite competent in her work.

 

[Evo]

Like russ said her accomplishments are meaningless, and as far as I know if you lied on a federal, state, or city application or misrepresented yourself in any way - that is a felony. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/261747_diplomamill04.html" People not only lose their jobs they go to jail. This is not just about some liberal touchy-feely 'aww she bent the truth let her go' crap. This is about a high school grad who was called a DR for nearly 3 decades and put on this facade of competency. Imagine you are a college student who pays 30 grand in tuition every year (wait a minute.. that sounds like an MIT student). Now you go to classes in hopes of attaining a high quality education. How would you feel if your professor was just a god damned high school graduate? At least she graduated from high school, maybe.

I am outraged that not nearly as many of you supposedly rational people are outraged as much as I am.

Honestly, I look for competence, not degrees. Lots of incompetant people out there with degrees including PHD's. Lots of crackpots with PHD's.

She was obviously competent, probably the best MIT ever had. That doesn't excuse lying on her resume, but it is definite proof that having a degree or the lack of a degree is not an indication of competency. Don't get the two confused.

 

[cronxeh]

I save outrage for the tremendous loss of life in the Iraq War, and the dishonesty and harmful policies of the Bush administration, and the legendary corruption of the Republican controlled 109th Congress. Where's the outrage there? Jones is small potatoes in comparison.

Jones was wrong - no one has argued otherwise. On the other hand, despite the lack of integrity in this matter, it does appear that she is quite competent in her work.

The government is incompetent, the President is a fraud, and the war costs 240 million a day. We know this, and people are used to the greed of stupid people. But this is MIT. This is supposed to be the beacon of hope amids of all the ignorance in this country. This is our future, our children's future and perhaps future of the entire human race depends on those higher education institutions that would find the cure for cancer, find a way to create controlled fusion, develop better materials, find solutions to problems in science and engineering. If we let this go now it will never be the same again. It would be a collapse of integrity in the highest of standards.


But then again, you saw what happens when someone who doesn't deserve the job gets it - just read this post over.

 

[Evo]

But then again, you saw what happens when someone who doesn't deserve the job gets it - just read this post over.

Yeah, MIT got the most outstanding Dean of Admissions in the school's history.

Truth is cronxeh, a degree means nothing as far as capabilities are concerned. Hate to fall back to the "Einstein" thing, but he only had an undergraduate degree and wasn't anywhere near the top of the class. But he had an extrordinary mind, just becuase he didn't excel in school or go on to get a higher education means nothing.

 

[edward]

Apparently being an advisor to the president and one who appears to set national policy doesn't require a degree of any kind. And yet Karl Rove has made quite a splash in D.C.

 

[cronxeh]

Yeah, MIT got the most outstanding Dean of Admissions in the school's history.

Truth is cronxeh, a degree means nothing as far as capabilities are concerned. Hate to fall back to the "Einstein" thing, but he only had an undergraduate degree and wasn't anywhere near the top of the class. But he had an extrordinary mind, just becuase he didn't excel in school or go on to get a higher education means nothing.

He didnt lie and tell everyone he was a genius to get the chicks in bed. And as far as this Dean is concerned, her work can be seen in the male:female ratio - MIT is famous for having 50%-50% of ratio, compare that to my Uni where there were only 18% females or Caltech where its 28%. Most tech schools have low male to female ratio, but oh wait here comes MIT - an anamoly of sorts, or should I say a forced evolutionary change where the undeserving get the spots over those who are eligible by merit. I'm not being sexist but perhaps she is? What an odd scenario : a high school grad who couldn't cut it in RPI is a Dean of Admission who levels the field by making it 50-50 for other females. Gee, that's odd, sounds like a good movie script or a summary of a deposition.

Oh wait I have a graph http://www-tech.mit.edu/V127/N14/admissions/table.html

2005-2006:
7608 males applied, 10% admitted: 758. Number DENIED: 6850
2832 females applied, 26% admitteD: 736. Number DENIED: 2096

2004-2005:
7669 males applied, 11.7% admitted: 898. Number DENIED: 6771
2797 females applied, 27.4% admitted: 767. Number DENIED: 2030

2003-2004:
7651 males applied, 11.6% admitted: 885. Number DENIED: 6766
2898 females applied, 29.3% admitted: 850. Number DENIED: 2048

Thats roughly 20387 males rejected in a 3 year period, give or take those who reapplied. Doesnt it strike you odd that twice as many females were admitted than males? Sounds like a sexual discrimination with a motive.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilee_Jones :
A spokesperson from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute reported on April 26, 2007 that Jones attended the institute as a "part-time, non- matriculating student" from September 1974 to June 1975 and did not receive a degree.[9] Spokespeople from Union College and from Albany Medical College both reported that there are no records of Jones ever attending either institution.[9] The same day, MIT confirmed that Jones did not hold a bachelor's degree from any institution.[10]

Wait did i get this right? She was there for Fall 74 and Spring 75 - that's 2 semesters, and part time means 6 credits but less than 12.. so that's 12-20 credits that she earned? Or maybe got a D? Thats 3-4 classes at most! This chick is an even bigger fraud than GW Bush - at least he actually went to Harvard.

Hey Evo, how is this for rant: Go to Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute today, take English101, Biology101, Chemistry101 and you can be a Dean of Admissions for a major private University! Make 170 grand a year and get to ruin lives of thousands of those nerds who used to be better than you in High School and College! Yeaah!

 

[Thrice]

Ideally schools should require a degree because a degree helps you do your work better. Not because it will look better on you. However putting a premium on authenticity seems a long standing american tradition.

 

[Cyrus]

He didnt lie and tell everyone he was a genius to get the chicks in bed. And as far as this Dean is concerned, her work can be seen in the male:female ratio - MIT is famous for having 50%-50% of ratio, compare that to my Uni where there were only 18% females or Caltech where its 28%. Most tech schools have low male to female ratio, but oh wait here comes MIT - an anamoly of sorts, or should I say a forced evolutionary change where the undeserving get the spots over those who are eligible by merit. I'm not being sexist but perhaps she is? What an odd scenario : a high school grad who couldn't cut it in RPI is a Dean of Admission who levels the field by making it 50-50 for other females. Gee, that's odd, sounds like a good movie script or a summary of a deposition.

Oh wait I have a graph http://www-tech.mit.edu/V127/N14/admissions/table.html

2005-2006:
7608 males applied, 10% admitted: 758. Number DENIED: 6850
2832 females applied, 26% admitteD: 736. Number DENIED: 2096

2004-2005:
7669 males applied, 11.7% admitted: 898. Number DENIED: 6771
2797 females applied, 27.4% admitted: 767. Number DENIED: 2030

2003-2004:
7651 males applied, 11.6% admitted: 885. Number DENIED: 6766
2898 females applied, 29.3% admitted: 850. Number DENIED: 2048

Thats roughly 20387 males rejected in a 3 year period, give or take those who reapplied. Doesnt it strike you odd that twice as many females were admitted than males? Sounds like a sexual discrimination with a motive.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilee_Jones :
A spokesperson from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute reported on April 26, 2007 that Jones attended the institute as a "part-time, non- matriculating student" from September 1974 to June 1975 and did not receive a degree.[9] Spokespeople from Union College and from Albany Medical College both reported that there are no records of Jones ever attending either institution.[9] The same day, MIT confirmed that Jones did not hold a bachelor's degree from any institution.[10]

Wait did i get this right? She was there for Fall 74 and Spring 75 - that's 2 semesters, and part time means 6 credits but less than 12.. so that's 12-20 credits that she earned? Or maybe got a D? Thats 3-4 classes at most! This chick is an even bigger fraud than GW Bush - at least he actually went to Harvard.

Hey Evo, how is this for rant: Go to Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute today, take English101, Biology101, Chemistry101 and you can be a Dean of Admissions for a major private University! Make 170 grand a year and get to ruin lives of thousands of those nerds who used to be better than you in High School and College! Yeaah!

Why are you so bitter? Did you get rejected to MIT?

Have you ever sat in an engineering class before? Theres always 1 girl in the class, 1 girl. Let's use a little common sense here, 10% of males get in, because ~2x more males applied than females did. Come on now con...

 

[cronxeh]

Why are you so bitter? Did you get rejected to MIT?

Have you ever sat in an engineering class before? Theres always 1 girl in the class, 1 girl. Let's use a little common sense here, 10% of males get in, because ~2x more males applied than females did. Come on now con...

Are you like, statistically challenged? The number of admitted students doesn't represent the academic merit, the difference is simply in the gender. The MIT has been known in recent decade to accept students simply to level the m:f ratio, which waters down the student body.

And unlike you, I can get a girl outside of classroom setting.

 

[Astronuc]

The number of admitted students doesn't represent the academic merit, the difference is simply in the gender. The MIT has been known in recent decade to accept students simply to level the m:f ratio, which waters down the student body.

And the evidence to support these conclusions is?

In my experience, the women in the engineering classes I attended were well qualified, and generally performed at the top of the class.

And from my experiences of meeting female graduates from MIT I must conclude that they certainly know their stuff and have earned their degree from MIT!

The statistical evidence cited is insufficient with respect to the qualifications of the individuals in the two populations to draw a valid conclusion as to merits behind the final numbers.

BTW, GWBush went to Yale, not Harvard.

 

[cronxeh]

And the evidence to support these conclusions is?

In my experience, the women in the engineering classes I attended were well qualified, and generally performed at the top of the class.

And from my experiences of meeting female graduates from MIT I must conclude that they certainly know their stuff and have earned their degree from MIT!

The statistical evidence cited is insufficient with respect to the qualifications of the individuals in the two populations to draw a valid conclusion as to merits behind the final numbers.

BTW, GWBush went to Yale, not Harvard.

Granted, some females may have had higher scores than the rejected males, but how statistically probable is that this number was too high to make a difference?

And GW went to Harvard after Yale, and actually got his MBA around same time this fraud dropped out of RPI, or technically, since she never even matriculated, resumed to the burger flipping state? Oh no wait she went on to become the Dean of Admissions eventually. A true American dream

 

[Cyrus]

Are you like, statistically challenged? The number of admitted students doesn't represent the academic merit, the difference is simply in the gender. The MIT has been known in recent decade to accept students simply to level the m:f ratio, which waters down the student body.

And unlike you, I can get a girl outside of classroom setting.

"Am I like?" ...me fail anglish, that's unpossible! - Ralph Wiggum.

Do you know for a fact that the female applicants are any less qualified than the male applicatnts?

Last time I checked, MIT was not watered down.

And unlike you, I can get a girl outside of classroom setting."

What was the point of that insult?

How old are you, 13?

 

[russ_watters]

In my experience, the women in the engineering classes I attended were well qualified, and generally performed at the top of the class.

And from my experiences of meeting female graduates from MIT I must conclude that they certainly know their stuff and have earned their degree from MIT!

The statistical evidence cited is insufficient with respect to the qualifications of the individuals in the two populations to draw a valid conclusion as to merits behind the final numbers.

What the statistics say is pretty straightforward: Women are qualified to attend MIT at a rate two and a half times higher than men...assuming equal admissions standards, of course.

What's the actual truth? Well personally, I believe in equality of the sexes, but I guess I don't know for sure that women aren't far superior than men intellectually...

At the risk of turning this into an Affirmative Action debate, this very issue has been in court a number of times and pretty much always gets decided the same way. It takes a lot of creativity with admissions criteria to get around the Constitutional requirement for equality and artificially boost a desirable minority.

 

[russ_watters]

She was obviously competent, probably the best MIT ever had. That doesn't excuse lying on her resume, but it is definite proof that having a degree or the lack of a degree is not an indication of competency. Don't get the two confused.

I really think you are missing a key point here, Evo. From the articles, it looks to me like what set her apart from other deans was the very issue that she was fraudulent about. If that's the case (I'd like to actually read the award citation...), her "achievement" is exactly equivalent to steroid use by an athlete. Her performance itself was the lie. She corrupted the admissions process of one of the most respected schools in the world! That makes her one of the worst deans they've ever had.

 

[Evo]

I really think you are missing a key point here, Evo. From the articles, it looks to me like what set her apart from other deans was the very issue that she was fraudulent about. If that's the case (I'd like to actually read the award citation...), her "achievement" is exactly equivalent to steroid use by an athlete. Her performance itself was the lie. She corrupted the admissions process of one of the most respected schools in the world! That makes her one of the worst deans they've ever had.

She lied on her resume, which was wrong, but I haven't read anything that criticized her performance in her job. Can you link to the article(s) that say she was not doing an excellent job?

 

[russ_watters]

You misunderstand, Evo - if Barry Bonds is eventually proven to have used steroids, his records get erased. Those balls still flew over the fence, but since they only did that because of a cheat, it is as if they never did. It is the same here:

The award she got in 1997 was "MIT Excellence Award for Leading Change." The change that she led was the fraud she committed! Lowering standards - that was her pet cause and how she cheated. It is exactly the same as getting off the subway to win the Boston Marathon.

 

[russ_watters]

Let me put it another way:

If she hadn't been a fraud, would she have made lowering expectations as her pet cause? I'm not a pshrink, so I don't know which was the cause and which the effect, but I have to think they are two parts of the same problem in her mind.

So...if she hadn't been a champion for change, would she have gotten the job? The awards? Being a champion for change in standards is what likely got her the job and what definitely got her at least one of the awards. And being a champion for change is her fraud.

It is actually a little worse than I had thought yesterday. You can lie on an application and still be the best at it (whether sports or a job). But her performance itself was based on the same lie that got her the job.