Find $\left[T\right]_\beta^\beta$ for NMH{823}

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the transition matrix $\left[T\right]_\beta^\beta$ for a linear transformation T defined by its action on vectors in a specific basis. Participants explore the calculations involved in determining the matrix representation and clarify steps in the process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about their approach to finding $\left[T\right]_\beta^\beta$ and mentions using an online calculator for row reduction.
  • Another participant calculates the transformation T applied to a specific vector and finds a result that differs from what was previously stated, questioning the accuracy of the earlier claim.
  • The same participant sets up a system of equations to express the transformed vector in terms of the basis vectors, leading to specific values for A, B, and C, which they propose as the first column of the transition matrix.
  • Several participants inquire about the derivation of specific results shown in an attachment, indicating a need for clarification on the calculations involved.
  • A participant reflects on the clarity of the steps provided in the discussion, expressing a desire for more detailed explanations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the correctness of the initial claims regarding the transformation results, as participants present differing calculations and interpretations. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple viewpoints on the calculations and their implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on specific assumptions about the transformation and the basis vectors, and there are unresolved steps in the calculations that may affect the final results.

karush
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nmh{823}

13.PNG

ok just want to see if I went the right direction with this before I launch into the rref
of which I would use a online calculator to do if I could find one.
$\left[T\right]_\beta^\beta$ should be on the right after rref
 
Last edited:
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Given that T\begin{bmatrix}x \\ y \\ z\end{bmatrix}= \begin{bmatrix}x+ 2y- z \\ 2x- y+ z \\ x+ z\end{bmatrix}

Then T\begin{bmatrix}1 \\ 0 \\ 1 \end{bmatrix}= \begin{bmatrix}1+ 2(0)- 1 \\ 2(1)- 0+ 1 \\ 1+ 1\end{bmatrix}= \begin{bmatrix} 0 \\ 3\\ 2 \end{bmatrix}. That is very different from your "\begin{bmatrix}2 \\ 0 \\ 2 \end{bmatrix}". Am I misunderstanding something?

To write that in basis \beta you want to find numbers, A, B, C such that
A\begin{bmatrix}1 \\ 0 \\ 1 \end{bmatrix}+ B\begin{bmatrix}1 \\ 2 \\ 1 \end{bmatrix}+ C\begin{bmatrix}1 \\ 1 \\ 0 \end{bmatrix}= \begin{bmatrix}A+ B+ C \\ 2B+ C \\A+ B \end{bmatrix}= \begin{bmatrix} 0 \\ 3 \\ 2 \end{bmatrix}.

So we have the three equations, A+ B+ C= 0, 2B+ C= 3, and A+ B= 2. From the second equation C= 3- 2B, and from the third, A= 2- B. Putting those into the first equation, A+ B+ C= 2- B+ B+ 3- 2B= 5- 2B= 0. 2B= 5 so B= 2/5. Then C= 3- 4/5= 11/5 and A= 2- 2/5= 8/5. The first column of the transition matrix is \begin{bmatrix}\frac{8}{5} \\ \frac{2}{5} \\ \frac{11}{5}\end{bmatrix}.
 
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/8893

how did they get these (red)
 
karush said:
how did they get these (red)
They applied the operator T to the vector using either the explicit form of the matrix T just above or by using the original definition.

[math]T \left [ \begin{matrix} 1 \\ 1 \\ 2 \end{matrix} \right ] = \left ( \begin{matrix} 5 & 0 & 1 \\ 3 & 2 & -3 \\ 5 & 0 & 0 \end{matrix} \right ) \left [ \begin{matrix} 1 \\ 1 \\ 2 \end{matrix} \right ] = \left [ \begin{matrix} 5(1) + 0(1) + 1(2) \\ 3(1) + 2(1) - 3(2) \\ 5(1) + 0(1) + 0(2) \end{matrix} \right ] = \left [ \begin{matrix} 7 \\ -1 \\ 5 \end{matrix} \right ] [/math]

-Dan
 
Looks obvious now
But i couldn't see that

Sometimes I wish they would show more steps rather that assume things but then ..;)

Just glad there is a good forum to call on
 

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