Finite simple group with prime index subgroup

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around properties of finite simple groups and their subgroups, specifically focusing on a subgroup of prime index. The original poster presents a problem from group theory regarding the implications of a subgroup's index on the group's order.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to prove two statements regarding the subgroup's index and its relationship to the group's order, raising questions about the validity of their reasoning. Participants engage in clarifying the implications of prime divisors and the structure of the group.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing feedback on the original poster's reasoning. Some guidance has been offered regarding the proof's correctness, and there is acknowledgment of potential overthinking in the approach taken.

Contextual Notes

The original poster references a related theorem about embedding groups in symmetric groups, which is central to their reasoning. There is also mention of constraints related to the order of groups and subgroups, as well as assumptions about normal subgroups in the context of simple groups.

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Homework Statement



If G is a finite simple group and
H is a subgroup of prime index p
Then
1. p is the largest prime divisor of \left|G\right| (the order of G)
2. p2 doesn't divide \left|G\right|

I think I have this proved, but want to confirm my reasoning is sound.
this problem is from intro to group theory by rose. it is problem 192 on p 75 in the chapter on group actions on sets, including embedding finite groups in symmetric groups.

thanks in advance for help

Homework Equations



related theorem: if H is of finite index in G, then G/HG, where HG is the largest normal subgroup of G contained in H, (that is the core of H in G) can be embedded in the symmetric group on \left|G: H \right| objects.

The Attempt at a Solution



the core must be = 1 or G since G is simple (yes?).
and it can't be G since G isn't contained in H.
..
the theorem above implies, since HG is going to be 1 , that G/HG = G can be embedded in S\left|G: H \right|, which has order p!.

from here I think I am supposed to assume that there is a prime q that divides G. but then it would divide p!, and that means it would have to be less that p.

I believe this implies conclusion 1. Yes?
As to part 2, ...
Since the core is normal, the subgroup isomorphism theorem (I think) gives
\left|G/ H_{G}\right|= \left[G<img src="/styles/physicsforums/xenforo/smilies/arghh.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":H" title="Gah! :H" data-shortname=":H" />\right] \left[H<img src="/styles/physicsforums/xenforo/smilies/arghh.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":H" title="Gah! :H" data-shortname=":H" />_{G}\right] = p \left[H<img src="/styles/physicsforums/xenforo/smilies/arghh.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":H" title="Gah! :H" data-shortname=":H" />_{G}\right]
therefore, since the core is trivial.
\left|G\right|= p \left[H\right]
now the order of G has to be less that p!
so the order of H has to less that p-1!, which means that p can't divide it, so p2 can't divide G.

Did I get it, or have I fooled myself?
 
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For part 2, you are thinking too hard. If p is prime, and you know that |G| divides p!, can p^2 divide |G|?
 
duh! Thinking too hard is what I do. I think.

(I was fooled because I was following copying the steps of a related proof on the same page...)

otherwise proof ok?

thanks tads for the reply...much obliged!
 
Assuming the "related theorem" you cite, yes, your proof is correct.
 

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