Flux linkage in inductance calculation for single wire.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of flux linkage in the context of inductance calculation for a single round wire carrying direct current. Participants explore the definitions and implications of flux linkage, particularly in relation to the magnetic field both inside and outside the wire, and the associated inductance.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the magnetic field inside a long, straight wire and questions the definition of flux linkage, suggesting it should only account for the current that contributes to the magnetic field.
  • Another participant asserts that flux linkage is defined as the surface integral of the magnetic flux within a circuit, questioning the relevance of external field lines.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that there should be a concept of 'external flux linkage' to account for the energy stored in the external magnetic field, which is not typically included in standard calculations.
  • One participant references a general definition of flux linkage and discusses its application to coils, noting that external inductance is often overlooked in the case of a single wire.
  • A participant reflects on the limitations of using a single wire model, suggesting that two parallel wires provide a more realistic scenario for analyzing inductance.
  • Another participant emphasizes that a single wire does not have associated inductance without a return path, indicating that the inductance of a finite radius wire would exclude external contributions.
  • One participant discusses the concept of total flux being zero due to the absence of magnetic monopoles, proposing a method to define the region for flux measurement around a long, straight wire.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition and relevance of flux linkage, particularly regarding the inclusion of external fields. There is no consensus on whether external inductance should be considered in the context of a single wire.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of the single wire model and the assumptions involved in defining flux linkage and inductance. The discussion highlights the complexity of accurately accounting for magnetic fields in different configurations.

goodphy
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Hello.

Maybe this is the one of the most typical example in Electromagnetism textbook.

There is a single round wire carrying current I (in D.C) with radius of R and length is infinity.

From Ampere's law, the B field inside the wire is

B = μIρ/2πR2 aθ

where ρ is radial distance from symmetric axis to point of field and aθ is unit vector in azimuthal coordinate in cylindrical coordinate.

The magnetic flux through the region of infinitesimal area of width dρ and unit length is simply

1 = Bdρdz = μIρ/2πR2dρdz.

It is very straightforward until this step.

My question arise from here; According to textbook, the flux linkage is not equal to flux but flux multiplied Ienc/I. It seems flux linkage counts only contribution of current which actually induces B in flux above. It seems reasonable since the flux linkage should not count the current which doesn't contribute.

Physically I feel it make sense, but I need a more rigorous definition of flux linkage to redrive this mathematical expression.

Could you please help me how to understand the flux linkage in clear view?

And in addition inductance L for single round wire is only calculated with the flux inside the conductor. But still there is a field outside the wire! Why is external field not counted?? Maybe this field is associated to external inductance Lext and total inductance L = Lint + ext where Lint is linked to flux linkage inside the wire as described above?
 
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flux linkage is defined as the surface integral "flux" of the B field within a circuit. From this, is it clear why would external field lines be relevant?
 
Stephen Hodgson said:
flux linkage is defined as the surface integral "flux" of the B field within a circuit. From this, is it clear why would external field lines be relevant?
Thanks for giving some comment. According to your reply, the flux linkage is the concept only associated to 'within' the circuit, rather than considering the external to it. But it has a field outside which also store the energy. Thus I guess there should be a concept of like 'external flux linkage' taking this uncounted energy storing field into account.
 
At least flux linkage problem, I've found the general definition of the flux linkage as ΛI = ∫IΛdΨ where Λ is flux linkage, dΨ is the differential flux due to IΛ, actual fraction of current which dΨ is due to. This is also applicable to coil in which ∫IΛdΨ becomes IΛΨ since magnetic field strength B is considered as uniform inside the coil. Here IΛ should be IN where N is number of turns in coil because Ψ is associated (linked) to all current IN.

Please see http://www.ece.mcmaster.ca/faculty/nikolova/EM_2FH3_downloads/lectures/L19_Induct_post.pdf

It comes to that I only need to solve why external inductance (the inductance due to field outside the conductor) is not typically counted in straight wire.
 
I had a wrong idea of wire selection in thought. What I'd been stuck is the fact that external inductance is infinity for single wire. It means single wire only passes DC, not true in real world. In fact, I've found that two parallel wires are more realistic model as there should be always other path, return current path. Two parallel wires are well known and I finally got rid of single wire in my mind.
 
Yeah, the problem is, you don't know what the circuit is. If we had 2 parallel wires, we could work out the inductance (per unit length) from the flux between the wires. A single wire on its own bears no associated inductance. Thus the inductance associated with a wire of finite radius alone would exclude this.
 
goodphy said:
Thanks for giving some comment. According to your reply, the flux linkage is the concept only associated to 'within' the circuit, rather than considering the external to it. But it has a field outside which also store the energy. Thus I guess there should be a concept of like 'external flux linkage' taking this uncounted energy storing field into account.

The total flux is zero. This is because there are no magnetic monopoles. So measured across all space, for every flux line adding, there will be one somewhere subtracting.

Flux linkage is thus the total amount of flux through a region. Usually the region is well defined by some wires (like a coil), but it doesn't need to be.

In the case of your long, straight wire, maybe a box with an edge along the surface of the wire a unit length long, and two edges stretching to infinity?
 

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