Focused proton beam waist diameter

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the limitations of achieving a tighter beam waist diameter in proton beams at the LHC, exploring factors such as emittance, flight direction spread, and cooling techniques. It encompasses theoretical considerations and practical challenges related to beam focusing in particle accelerators.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the minimal waist diameter is influenced by emittance and the spread in flight direction at the smallest point.
  • It is suggested that emittance is determined by the proton source's uniformity in position and velocity, with the possibility of maintaining it but not reducing it further.
  • Some participants mention that electron-positron accelerators can reduce emittance through synchrotron radiation, while certain proton accelerators may use electron cooling or stochastic cooling, though these methods may not be practical for the LHC.
  • There is a discussion about the necessity of strong focusing magnets close to the interaction point to manage the spread in flight direction while fitting the beams into the beam pipe.
  • One participant raises a concern about potential losses due to electron recombination when using electron cooling and questions if there are methods to mitigate these losses.
  • Another participant acknowledges that while some protons may form hydrogen atoms, under certain conditions, this rate can be small, and notes that antiprotons do not experience this issue.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the effectiveness and practicality of different cooling methods and the implications of emittance on beam waist diameter, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves assumptions about the behavior of protons and the limitations of cooling techniques, which may not be fully explored or defined. The impact of energy levels on focusing capabilities is also mentioned but not resolved.

BrandonBerchtold
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The minimal waist diameter is roughly determined by emittance (size of the bunches in phase space) and the spread in flight direction at the smallest point.

The emittance is given by the proton source - how uniform the protons are in position and velocity. After that the emittance can only grow, at best you keep it nearly the same the whole time.
Electron-positron accelerators can reduce their emittance via synchrotron radiation, some proton accelerators can use electron cooling or stochastic cooling, but these would be impractical at the LHC.

A larger spread in flight direction can lead to a smaller spread in position, but the beams still have to fit into the beam pipe - to get a large spread inside the experiments but not in the rest of the accelerator you need strong focusing magnets very close to the interaction point and there are simply limits how much you can do there.
 
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Electron cooling seems useful but won't there be significant losses due to the recombination of electrons, or is there a way of increasing the probability of electron scattering such that recombination losses become negligible?
 
You lose some protons that form hydrogen atoms but there are conditions where that rate is small.
With antiprotons you don't have that mechanism, of course.
 
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