For those of you who do a lot of maths, why?

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The discussion centers around the motivations and perceptions surrounding the enjoyment of mathematics. Participants express that engaging with math provides a sense of superiority and an escape from life's challenges, echoing Bertrand Russell's sentiment that it allows one to transcend human limitations. While some find joy in math's beauty and its ability to model reality, others emphasize its practical applications and the satisfaction derived from problem-solving.The conversation also touches on stereotypes of mathematicians as socially isolated or introverted, with some participants challenging these notions by sharing personal experiences of maintaining social lives while studying math. There is a debate about whether the pursuit of mathematics leads to a sense of superiority or merely a sense of achievement, with differing views on the impact of intense study on social interactions and verbal reasoning.Overall, the thread highlights the complex relationship individuals have with mathematics, balancing enjoyment, intellectual fulfillment, and the societal perceptions of mathematicians.
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Apart from the fact that it's fun and enjoyable which are too general as reasons. For me, it's because doing maths makes me feel superior, away from life's everyday miseries and above other human beings. As Russell puts it, "...[maths] allows one to be more than man."
 
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tgt said:
Apart from the fact that it's fun and enjoyable which are too general as reasons. For me, it's because doing maths makes me feel superior, away from life's everyday miseries and above other human beings. As Russell puts it, "...[maths] allows one to be more than man."

please... :rolleyes:
 
tgt said:
Apart from the fact that it's fun and enjoyable which are too general as reasons. For me, it's because doing maths makes me feel superior, away from life's everyday miseries and above other human beings. As Russell puts it, "...[maths] allows one to be more than man."
Yeah, there are numerous mathematicians who can not stand other human beings, sure, they hide behind thick beards... I too like math because of its rigid eternal beauty which pulls me out of this ugly chaos out there :-p
 
I like math because it gives me a way to model reality - or at least a pretty good facsimile of it.

Math is enjoyable enough, but I probably wouldn't do that much if it didn't serve some purpose. However, I certainly do appreciate the mathematicians that developed a lot of the techniques that work so well for me.
 
cristo said:
please... :rolleyes:

It's true. Let's just be honest.

Many people want to get rich not just because they want to buy more stuff for the sake of those stuff but often because they want to show off to their peers. Hence it's all a relative thing and that is why many rich people are not happy etc. But if maths can make you feel superior and above other men (except those that are better mathematicians than yourself) then how awesome is it? As long as you can live comfortably, you will be very happy indeed.
 
Because it's a means of achieving my goals. Besides, when you do it for fun it's rather soothing to the soul. :)
 
tgt said:
It's true. Let's just be honest.
It's certainly not true of all mathematicians and I know for a fact that quite a few of them would find such a position sick. Read about Perelman who refused the Fields medal. Many people contributing to mathematics view their contribution to mathematics much more important than their own person.

There is this attitude in mathematics which consists in playing with concepts until they become familiar to you. This feeling is highly rewarding, intense mathematical pleasure, similar to artistic pleasure. It makes you feel like you have really shared a thought with another person. In this respect, mathematics is a transcendental mean of communication with other human beings sharing the same passion for mathematics. In this understanding of mathematics, all humans are equal in their will to discover and share mathematical knowledge, even though some contribute more and some contribute less, this is a detail compared to the relationship they share with mathematics in general.

This whole scheme certainly does not fit very well with the idea that you can use mathematics to "feel superior".
 
LOL doing math to feel superior? Superior to who? The guy who has a well paying job and a girlfriend while you make half as much as he does and you haven't spoken to another person in 3 days?
 
WarPhalange said:
LOL doing math to feel superior? Superior to who? The guy who has a well paying job and a girlfriend while you make half as much as he does and you haven't spoken to another person in 3 days?

So many false stereotypes portrayed in this forum: have you ever met a mathematician?
 
  • #10
No! Because they are locked up in their mom's basement for 3 days at a time! That's my point!
 
  • #11
WarPhalange said:
LOL doing math to feel superior? Superior to who? The guy who has a well paying job and a girlfriend while you make half as much as he does and you haven't spoken to another person in 3 days?

cristo said:
So many false stereotypes portrayed in this forum: have you ever met a mathematician?

Not if he's a mathematician. In that case, he probably hasn't even met the person in the next cubicle. :smile:

Actually, wouldn't meeting a mathematician tend to indicate his theory was wrong? Having not met a mathematician would be an indication his theory might be right.
 
  • #12
WarPhalange said:
No! Because they are locked up in their mom's basement for 3 days at a time! That's my point!

Yea, ok, you sure made a valid point there :rolleyes:
 
  • #13
BobG said:
Actually, wouldn't meeting a mathematician tend to indicate his theory was wrong? Having not met a mathematician would be an indication his theory might be right.

Well, his theory is either right, or it is infact him who is "locked up in [his] mom's basement for 3 days at a time." Since I have met plenty of mathematicians, and not one of them lives in a basement, let alone is locked in there, then I would tend to believe the latter.
 
  • #14
BobG said:
Actually, wouldn't meeting a mathematician tend to indicate his theory was wrong? Having not met a mathematician would be an indication his theory might be right.

Exactly.

Idea: Mathematicians live in their mother's basements and only talk to people every 3 days if at all.

Hypothesis: If I try to meet a mathematician, I will most likely fail because they are all working at their mother's basement/office basement/sewers.

Experiment: Go out and meet people.

Conclusion: No mathematicians met, ergo they are all shut-ins.


WHERE MY NOBEL PRIZE HMMM?
 
  • #15
cristo said:
Well, his theory is either right, or it is infact him who is "locked up in [his] mom's basement for 3 days at a time." Since I have met plenty of mathematicians, and not one of them lives in a basement, let alone is locked in there, then I would tend to believe the latter.

Probably experimental error on your part. Most likely you misunderestimated what they said, hearing "I'm a mathematician" instead of "I'm Matt, a mortician." or something. Where is your raw data?
 
  • #16
WarPhalange said:
Probably experimental error on your part. Most likely you misunderestimated what they said, hearing "I'm a mathematician" instead of "I'm Matt, a mortician." or something. Where is your raw data?

Wow, your English is as bad as your logic! Anyway, my raw data is that I work in a maths department and have friends that are mathematicians. This discussion is pointless, so let's stop now, hey?
 
  • #18
There is a guy planting some red flags around his house. His neighbour comes to him and ask him "why are you planting those flags ?" to which he answers "It repels giraffes". The neighbour is puzzled "But, there is no giraffe around here". And the guy looks at him "Sure there is not, and you can thank me for that !".
 
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  • #19
tgt said:
Apart from the fact that it's fun and enjoyable which are too general as reasons. For me, it's because doing maths makes me feel superior, away from life's everyday miseries and above other human beings. As Russell puts it, "...[maths] allows one to be more than man."
Also, don't forget, doing maths increases the dexterity of your penis.
 
  • #20
  • #21
WarPhalange said:
Wow! Your sense of humor is utterly non-existant!
No. My sense of humour is different to yours: totally different statement. Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that these stereotypes are false. Why do you think the general public think these stereotypes exists when someone who is (probably) even a student in the sciences believes them?
Not only are you making a total fuss out of a simple joke, but you missed this:

http://www.google.com/search?q=misu...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Missed what? The invention of a non-word? That was pretty much my point.
 
  • #22
cristo said:
No. My sense of humour is different to yours: totally different statement. Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that these stereotypes are false. Why do you think the general public think these stereotypes exists when someone who is (probably) even a student in the sciences believes them?

I had heard that it was because in the 40's and 50's and such scientists were huddled into national labs to work on bombs and stuff and couldn't really talk about their research with the public (at least in the US) so the perception people got from that is that eggheads are secretive and introverted.

But, whenever I am at lunch or something and I hear people seriously discussing a project or some aspect of it when it's their time to relax, I just want to punch them. Jesus Christ, take a break people! And if they think the are taking a break, well, that's how you continue the stereotype.

Missed what? The invention of a non-word? That was pretty much my point.

Intentionally using it in a humorous context means I suck at English then? Ok. Didn't Shakespeare make up a bunch of words himself? Same with Lewis Carrol. Oops, they suck at the English. I'll let you be the one to tell them that.
 
  • #23
WarPhalange said:
Didn't Shakespeare make up a bunch of words himself?
In that case, you used a word created by another great humorist. :-p
 
  • #25
humanino said:
:smile: :smile: :smile:
Definitions of misunderestimate on the Web:
A Bushism is any of a number of peculiar words, phrases, pronunciations, malapropisms, semantic or linguistic errors, and gaffes that have ...
Misunderestimate on wiki

Bush's neologistic binges are simply aspirations towards the greatness of our past Presidents. Another George was also famous for his neologisms. Both "bakery" and "indoors" were words made up by Washington. John Adams can be credited with the word, "caucus".

I think Bush aspires to surpass neologic amateurs like Washington and Adams. I think he considers himself a "Jeffersonian Republican" and is attempting to equal the most famous neologist President of all. Jefferson intentionally invented and promoted new words, hoping to turn "American" into a distinct language from "English". Jefferson invented words such as "authentication" and "electioneering" for no other reason than that he was an "Anglophobe" (another word invented by Jefferson). In fact, if Jefferson had really achieved his goals, "American" would have become "indecipherable" to the English.

George Allen also considered himself a "Jeffersonian Republican" and hoped to replicate the success of George, the Bush. Unfortunately, George (the Senatorial version) fell prey to the most serious hazard confronting neology. His new word, "macaca", already existed and had some seriously negative connotations.
 
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  • #26
Talking about perceptions regarding mathematicians, here's a recent nice read on arxiv:
"Through a Glass Darkly"

We consider the question of how mathematicians view themselves and how non-mathematicians view us. What is our role in society? Is it effective? Is it rewarding? How could it be improved? This paper will be part of a forthcoming volume on this circle of questions.



http://arxiv.org/abs/0807.2656
 
  • #27
I like it because I also study philosophy and politics (sometimes more than what I can handle) and I like to know there are some things that are somewhat true or at least can be shown to be true deductively, with axioms that have held for thousands of years and seem to be correct in certain context.

So in this sense you don't spend as much time arguing about opinion with the basic mathematics.
 
  • #28
yenchin said:
Talking about perceptions regarding mathematicians, here's a recent nice read on arxiv:
"Through a Glass Darkly"
http://arxiv.org/abs/0807.2656
Nice article with some great quotes:

"One of my wife’s uncles, a farmer, once said to me—thinking himself to
be in a puckish mood—that we obviously no longer need mathematicians
because we have computers. I gave him a patient look and said yes, and
we obviously no longer need farmers because we have vending machines."

"For most wearers of white coats, philosophy is to science
as pornography is to sex." (Steve Jones)

You could even come up with a new joke from that paper.

A proctologist approaches a stranger at a party and asks, "Hi, I'm Herb, the proctologist. What do you do for a living?"

The stranger replies, "I'm a mathematician."

The proctologist responds, "I used to be good at math ... at least until we reached the part with letters. Especially the Greek letters. I always hated Greek letters."

The mathematician replies ...
 
  • #29
I mostly do math bcause it helps it physics...which i like studying.
 
  • #30
I study math because it gives me something to do when I lock myself in my parents' basement for 3 days.
 
  • #31
I do math when sh*t happens. It is beautiful and amazing!

What Bush is doing in math thread?
 
  • #32
I like mathematics because of the rigor, unity and conviction found in it. I also hate it because of it's addictive nature and it's ability to constantly be on my mind, to the point I lose sleep over it.
 
  • #33
I do math because it's the best way to figure out how much money is left in the budget.
 
  • #34
Math Is Hard said:
I do math because it's the best way to figure out how much money is left in the budget.

You're only saying that because your parents are monitoring your activities on PF. You haven't told them about the calculator collection hidden in the crawl space above your closet, have you.
 
  • #35
Math Is Hard said:
I do math because it's the best way to figure out how much money is left in the budget.

I use
Graph http://www.padowan.dk/ - Once a week, I input money left in my college card, and it also help me figuring out how fast I should spend my money

sometimes Excel and Google notes, excel, ...
 
  • #36
BobG said:
You're only saying that because your parents are monitoring your activities on PF. You haven't told them about the calculator collection hidden in the crawl space above your closet, have you.

shhh.. you're going to give me away. :wink:

p.s. http://www.neaca.com/images/SA105_HRT28_Micky_Mouse_Calculator_.JPG"
 
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  • #37
Funny thing is that most people do math without knowing what math is.
 
  • #38
To do mathematics because you feel superior?

I don't think I do anything for that reason. I do it because I simply enjoy it. Simple as that.
 
  • #39
I think it's funnier that people think math is just about arithmetic. I'm only getting enough math for a physics degree and I'm already amazed how much more there is to math. The tiny bits I get every now and then in like topology or number theory or whatnot just blows my mind.
 
  • #40
WarPhalange said:
it's funnier that people think math is just about arithmetic.
I do not see what in this thread makes you say that. Maybe you have recently discovered that. But nobody here as suggested that.
MIH was obviously joking !
 
  • #41
For me, it is a way to find out what the truth behind our world is.

"Mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe." -Galileo Galilei-
 
  • #42
I always find it strange when people pull quotes like these. For me, mathematics is to the mathematical sciences what grammar is to literature. It's just the formal study of the underlying structure, there's nothing mystic or grandiose about it.
 
  • #43
humanino said:
I do not see what in this thread makes you say that. Maybe you have recently discovered that. But nobody here as suggested that.
MIH was obviously joking !

No, sorry, I didn't mean anybody in this thread. I meant laypeople. Like that lady from the Verizon customer support who couldn't divide two numbers and her excuse was "I'm not a mathematician."

Math is so much more than arithmetic, but most people haven't the slightest clue about that.
 
  • #44
Werg22 said:
I always find it strange when people pull quotes like these. For me, mathematics is to the mathematical sciences what grammar is to literature. It's just the formal study of the underlying structure, there's nothing mystic or grandiose about it.
Many people have a "mathematical sensibility". I enjoy often deep intense pleasure from a proof, pretty much similar to artistic pleasure shared by many about a painting or a musical piece. Except it's better :biggrin:
 
  • #45
Math Is Hard said:
shhh.. you're going to give me away. :wink:

p.s. http://www.neaca.com/images/SA105_HRT28_Micky_Mouse_Calculator_.JPG"

Why can't a TI-83 Plus have something fun like that :rolleyes:
 
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  • #46
WarPhalange said:
LOL doing math to feel superior? Superior to who? The guy who has a well paying job and a girlfriend while you make half as much as he does and you haven't spoken to another person in 3 days?

JasonRox said:
To do mathematics because you feel superior?

I don't think I do anything for that reason. I do it because I simply enjoy it. Simple as that.

For many mathematicians, the opportunity cost is extremely high because instead they could be working in the 'real-world' making huge money. Being able to have a lot of 'things' is always desirable so the mathematician must have some very good reasons for doing what he does.
 
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  • #47
There is a sense of superiority gained from doing math. Not the kind that you shove in other people's face, but one that satisfies my ego. I personally got involved with math because of the large amounts of time I had to invest in it at the beggining, and as with anything you lose sleep over, it became an obsession. No longer was math a tool for my science courses, afterwards it was a contest to my ability. It has taught me to be logical and has made me very skeptical about all the sciences. Apart from the methodology of math, which is an excellent mental exercise, it is a beautiful subject. You don't find such concreteness and beauty anywhere, aside from maybe music.

It does come with a price though. I will have to second that mathemeticians live sheltered lives. Which is not neccessarily a bad thing, because everything else is trivial in comparission to a deep theory. I don't agree with how the poster said it, but math takes an insane amount of time to do and it is natural to give up a social life while studying it. In fact, I would go as far as saying it even damages your verbal reasoning because you get accustomed to a very precise language and a symbolic language that ordinary people don't use. That comes from only personal experience though, as you can see by the way I write.

In any case, I'd rather study Galois theory instead of spiking my hair and wondering if the bimbo next to me is interested in small talk.
 
  • #48
Do you know André Weil ? The legend saying he "was saved from being shot" is probably apocryphal. It is however true that he made his most important contribution while in prison. Among which a proof of the Riemann hypothesis for local zeta-functions... So maybe it's best for mathematicians not to interact to much with other human beings sometimes, so they can concentrate (sorry for the allusion, true it's very, very bad humor)...

Just thought it was worth mentioning the anecdote at this point.
 
  • #49
Howers said:
There is a sense of superiority gained from doing math. Not the kind that you shove in other people's face, but one that satisfies my ego. I personally got involved with math because of the large amounts of time I had to invest in it at the beggining, and as with anything you lose sleep over, it became an obsession. No longer was math a tool for my science courses, afterwards it was a contest to my ability. It has taught me to be logical and has made me very skeptical about all the sciences. Apart from the methodology of math, which is an excellent mental exercise, it is a beautiful subject. You don't find such concreteness and beauty anywhere, aside from maybe music.

It does come with a price though. I will have to second that mathemeticians live sheltered lives. Which is not neccessarily a bad thing, because everything else is trivial in comparission to a deep theory. I don't agree with how the poster said it, but math takes an insane amount of time to do and it is natural to give up a social life while studying it. In fact, I would go as far as saying it even damages your verbal reasoning because you get accustomed to a very precise language and a symbolic language that ordinary people don't use. That comes from only personal experience though, as you can see by the way I write.

In any case, I'd rather study Galois theory instead of spiking my hair and wondering if the bimbo next to me is interested in small talk.

What level of study of maths are you on at the moment?
 
  • #50
Howers said:
There is a sense of superiority gained from doing math. Not the kind that you shove in other people's face, but one that satisfies my ego.
That's not a sense of superiority, but is merely a sense of achievement.
It does come with a price though. I will have to second that mathemeticians live sheltered lives. Which is not neccessarily a bad thing, because everything else is trivial in comparission to a deep theory. I don't agree with how the poster said it, but math takes an insane amount of time to do and it is natural to give up a social life while studying it.
I have to disagree with this. Firstly, life is not "trivial" compared to mathematics. Secondly, one does not need to give up a social life in order to study mathematics. I have an degree in mathematics and, whilst I perhaps spent more time studying than some of the people I lived with, I certainly did not give up on having a social life!
In fact, I would go as far as saying it even damages your verbal reasoning because you get accustomed to a very precise language and a symbolic language that ordinary people don't use.
Rubbish: mathematics will only damage your ability to write if you let it. Then again, the mere fact that you call non-mathematicians "ordinary people" tells me that you have succumbed to the stereotypes.

In any case, I'd rather study Galois theory instead of spiking my hair and wondering if the bimbo next to me is interested in small talk.
Why can't one do both?
 
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