Schools Freshmen withdrawing from junior level E@M class. What would grad school think?

[xdrgnh]

So let's keep it hypothetical here. Let's say a freshmen is taking intro level E@M and Junior level Griffths E@M at the same time. The student is doing this because in high school he took calc based E@M and believes he can relearn any gaps. The student is getting As in his intro level class but getting not so good grades in his junior class. So he decides to withdraw from it. Will that look bad when it comes to apply to graduate school. Also let's say by the time he applied to grad school he retook E@M and got a good grade and had a decent GPA overall.

 

[Neil.yc]

This is not a valid hypothesis: either that freshman takes junior level E&M or the other.
Taking both at the same time is not a sensible option. I mean, if that freshman knows the material of introduction course so well, what is the point of taking it? Even if that first year student has much time to spend, the faculty won't let it happen.

 

[xdrgnh]

He is already taking both. He is taking the intro level because he needs the credits from it to graduate and the lab part of the class. Let's assume they allow it. Also how would you know that they won't allow it. You don't know the faculty nor the student.

 

[Neil.yc]

Yes, I don't know the faculty or that particular, hypothetical student.

What I am trying to say is, if the faculty grants that student a permission to take certain class, it is not logical, nor sensible, to make him/ her take the introductory class simultaneously.

Perhaps it is also worth mentioning that there are freshmen and sophomore taking graduate class as well.

 

[xdrgnh]

Just stick to the scenario and don't discuss if it's possible or not. Trust me it's possible.

 

[Choppy]

It will look less bad than getting a poor grade in a class this hypothetical student wasn't prepared for, but worse than having taken classes with appropriate preparation and done well in all of them.

A transcript with a W is not an endgame.

 

[lisab]

It will look less bad than getting a poor grade in a class this hypothetical student wasn't prepared for, but worse than having taken classes with appropriate preparation and done well in all of them.

A transcript with a W is not an endgame.

I agree, one W shouldn't be a big deal. Especially if the overall GPA is good.

I trust this hypothetical student now realizes prerequisites shouldn't be regarded as mere suggestions meant for weaker students .

 

[ZapperZ]

He is already taking both. He is taking the intro level because he needs the credits from it to graduate and the lab part of the class. Let's assume they allow it. Also how would you know that they won't allow it. You don't know the faculty nor the student.

I want to know what school will allow such a thing to happen. In most cases, your class schedule has to be signed by an academic advisor. Unless he/she rubber-stamped such things, an advisor would never allow a student to do that.

This hypothetical student should also get someone to smack him/her on the back of his/her head for having such grandiose thought of his/her own ability and thinking that he/she could get away with such a crazy scheme.

Zz.

 

[R.P.F.]

i don't think it's a deal breaker. It's more affordable for a freshman to make a stupid decision than a junior in terms of grad school.

 

[nonequilibrium]

I trust this hypothetical student now realizes prerequisites shouldn't be regarded as mere suggestions meant for weaker students .

I remember thinking this the first year in college :) thank god I didn't act on it!

 

[xdrgnh]

I want to know what school will allow such a thing to happen. In most cases, your class schedule has to be signed by an academic advisor. Unless he/she rubber-stamped such things, an advisor would never allow a student to do that.

This hypothetical student should also get someone to smack him/her on the back of his/her head for having such grandiose thought of his/her own ability and thinking that he/she could get away with such a crazy scheme.

Zz.

A very reputable school and this hypothetical student knew how to sell himself good.

 

[micromass]

A very reputable school and this hypothetical student knew how to sell himself good.

It seems like the hypothetical student lied to himself. I trust that the hypothetical student will now be a bit more realistic about his abilities.

 

[R.P.F.]

Look, here is a suggestion: be humble when you ask for advice.

I remember you started a thread last year asking whether you should take junior level E&M as a freshman. A lot of people suggested you not to do it. Apparently you did not listen, which is fine. But since now you are having trouble in your class, I'm hoping you learned something. If there is one thing I think you should have learned, it would be to stay humble. You think you know how to sell yourself good? Apparently you did that in a wrong way.

 

[Jorriss]

http://loldamn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/funny-Einstein-monkey-high-school-college1.jpg

It's a junior level course for a reason. High school courses do not compare to upper division college courses in every case I've ever heard of. Take your lower division and learn them well, then do upper division. Even if you can pass it, you're hurting yourself.

 

[xdrgnh]

I'll come clean this is a scenario. I just started the class so idk how I am doing. I'm asking because if I do bad I will naturally want to withdraw from it. But I don't want that hurting my chances at grad school.

 

[Jorriss]

I'll come clean this is a scenario. I just started the class so idk how I am doing. I'm asking because if I do bad I will naturally want to withdraw from it. But I don't want that hurting my chances at grad school.

Clearly it will stop you from getting in any graduate school if you drop one class in your second semester.

 

[xdrgnh]

Clearly it will stop you from getting in any graduate school if you drop one class in your second semester.

I had a feeling I would get responses like that. If this an ordinary class I would of not bother asking. But barely any freshmen do this so I wanted to be sure.

 

[nonequilibrium]

I went back and looked up your other thread where you asked if you should take up the junior level EM class.

Having read the advice there, and seeing how you're doubting it yourself, it seems pretty darn obvious you shouldn't take it this semester. I'm only an undergraduate student myself, so don't take my word on it, but the word of the sensible people who posted in your other thread (and your fears).

Rushing things is often not good. Rushing and being scared you'll fall because of it is just bad.

 

[micromass]

I had a feeling I would get responses like that. If this an ordinary class I would of not bother asking. But barely any freshmen do this so I wanted to be sure.

I'm pretty sure it won't hurt your chances. But learn from your experience and don't do these kinds of things again. If you do it again and drop the course again, then this might be more harmful.

 

[micromass]

I went back and looked up your other thread where you asked if you should take up the junior level EM class.

Having read the advice there, and seeing how you're doubting it yourself, it seems pretty darn obvious you shouldn't take it this semester.

+1.0

 

[xdrgnh]

I still have a week to drop it without any consequence. I did attend the 1st lecture and I didn't fine it to be to difficult. The vector proofs were long though and I doing them for H.W. I got another lecture tmr and I'll be able to go to 1 more after that before I can drop it with no consequence.

 

[nonequilibrium]

Has anyone ever doubted so much as the OP about something but then eventually still gone with it (and feeling good about it)?

Personally, I've found that when I've doubted so much about something, I had usually made up my mind but just didn't like admitting it.

 

[micromass]

I still have a week to drop it without any consequence. I did attend the 1st lecture and I didn't fine it to be to difficult. The vector proofs were long though and I doing them for H.W. I got another lecture tmr and I'll be able to go to 1 more after that before I can drop it with no consequence.

Don't you have some kind of book or course notes?? Why not try to read those up to the point where it gets difficult?? That's a much better way to gauge your succes then attending lectures (because lectures start easy in the beginning).

 

[xdrgnh]

I do have Griffths and looked through it. Besides the parts where PDE were used which I doubt would be part of the course because a class in PDE isn't a prerequisite I found most of the stuff just applying vector calculus to E@M. Also not all of Griffth will be covered from my understanding. Some of the end topics appeared to be over my head.

 

[Jorriss]

I had a feeling I would get responses like that. If this an ordinary class I would of not bother asking. But barely any freshmen do this so I wanted to be sure.

I was being sarcastic. I have a 3.7 GPA and 1 W and I transferred from a community college and I got into caltech this year.

People new to university stress about all the wrong things. Graduate school is mostly about your undergraduate research and letters of recommendation. That isn't to say you shouldn't aim low on grades, but you can get W's.

That being said, you should drop this class so you can learn it more properly in the future.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Has anyone ever doubted so much as the OP about something but then eventually still gone with it

Has anyone asked for so much advice and then refused to take it?

 

[Mindscrape]

You may be book smart, but you're not very smart. Just audit, or sit in on, the course. If you end up doing really well, though most people (including me) doubt you will, take the grad EM when you'd normally do the junior EM. So obvious...

 

[xdrgnh]

I'm dropping the class because it looks like it would consume so much of my time I won't be able to have a social life and I got other obligations.

 

[Choppy]

It's easy to sit back in this thread and label the hypothetical student as having dug him or herself a hole completely through arrogance, but I'm not sure that's completely appropriate.

It sounds to me like there are some systematic issues here as well. I mean, here we have a student who took a university-level class in high school and apparently didn't find much challenge in it. The actual first-year class was then probably review (at least from the point of view of browsing the topics). So does this hypothetical student really need to shoulder all of the blame for seeking out a challenge.

As others have pointed out it appears there was flaw in the system somewhere because a prerequisite was skipped.

I also can't help, but wonder if part of the problem may have been instigated during one of those "advanced placement" courses taught at the high school level.