Frictional work inside a circle

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves analyzing the work done against friction when pushing an object of mass m up a loop-the-loop track of radius R, starting from the bottom and reaching a height h less than R. The coefficient of friction between the object and the track is given as a constant μ.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to relate the normal force and frictional force to the motion of the object, questioning the validity of assuming a linear change in normal force as height increases. They express uncertainty about integrating the forces along the circular path.
  • One participant suggests a method to find the normal force by considering the angle of the track and the gravitational force, proposing to express the work done against friction in terms of an integral.
  • Another participant reflects on their initial confusion and acknowledges the clarification provided by the previous response.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants exploring different interpretations of the forces involved and how to set up the integration for work done against friction. Guidance has been offered regarding the relationship between the normal force and the angle of the track, which may help clarify the original poster's approach.

Contextual Notes

The original poster expresses frustration with their progress and seeks a nudge towards the correct integration method, indicating a potential gap in understanding how to apply the concepts of circular motion and friction in this context.

StephenP
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Homework Statement


You push an object of mass m slowly, partway up a loop-the-loop track of radius R, starting from the bottom, where the normal force to the track is vertically upward, and ending at a point a height h< R above the bottom. The coefficient of friction between the object and the track is a constant [tex]\mu[/tex].
Show that the work you do against friction is [tex]\mu mg(2rh-h^2)^{1/2}[/tex]

Homework Equations


[tex]W=\vec{F}\cdot\vec{x}[/tex]
[tex]F_f=\mu mg[/tex]

The Attempt at a Solution


I assume that since the mass is being moved 'slowly', I can ignore the usual equations of circular motion, centripetal force, etc.
1tage0.png

Further, I noted that at point "A", the normal force is exactly equal/opposite to mg, and that at point "B", the normal force is exactly 0. (at h=r).
I further assumed (not sure if this is valid) that the normal force would decrease linearly from mg to 0 as h goes from 0 to r.
261mc6g.png

Using the basic equation of a line, I get:
[tex]F_n(h) = \frac{-\mu mg}{r}(h) + \mu mg[/tex]

This is where I more or less run out of steam. I know that I ought to integrate it, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to integrate it "along" the displacement (which would be given by the circle). Simply taking the indefinite integral wrt h yields:
[tex]\mu mg(\frac{2rh-h^2}{2r})+C[/tex]
Which is rather similar, but obviously significantly different. I guess what I need is a last nudge to figure out what I'm doing wrong, I feel very close but have just gotten frustrated working on this for so long :(
-Stephen
 
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The normal force doesn't change linearly.
Pick a point on the track, say where your green line meets it, and show mg down. Extend the green line so you can find the component of mg along the green line that is the normal force at that point. Call the angle between the vertical and the green line θ and mark it in two places - the middle of the circle and between mg and the green line.
Once you have an expression for the normal force at angle θ, you can write one for the friction force Ff.

dW = Ff*dL, where dL is a bit of distance along the circular track. Write dL = R*dθ and you should have a dW as a function of θ that you can integrate from 0 to Φ, the angle when the mass is at height h.

I did quite a bit of messing around (including a Pythagorean formula) to get a nice expression for sin(Φ) in terms of R and h to evaluate the integral.

Interesting problem!
 
I had considered more or less the same thing before, but didn't succeed at first and started REALLY overthinking things. Between you and a night's sleep, it all seems rather simple now. Thanks for putting me back on track! :smile:
 
Most welcome! Good luck on the next one.
 

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