Gainesville Reverend Plans To Burn Qu'ran

[Char. Limit]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20015763-10391695.html

I just can't believe this. What this man is proposing is, in my opinion, one of the most harmful actions to this nation that he could commit. We've seen two things: book-burning doesn't tend to be highly regarded by anyone, and you don't want to incite the greatest threat to our troops (Islamic terrorists) by burning the center of their life. I predict that if this idiot follows through, American troops will die because of it.

I just can't believe this... why?

 

[Astronuc]

Yes - such an inflammatory action will likely motivate more aggression.

But worse - it might incite those who have been on the sidelines, i.e. those who were less inclined to enter the fight.

And still - it will cost the US support who see this as affront to their religion.

Apparently this guy represents a non-denominational establishment, Dove World Outreach Center. Not exactly sure what it is. Perhaps he has registered as a church or religious establishment.

When asked if his church, Dove World Outreach Center has a mission statement, Jones said that it did but when questioned further, Jones told the attorney he did not know what the mission statement was.

"I think mainly just because the things we're involved in are just really way too hot for your normal Christian and your normal person."

:uhh:

He doesn't seem to represent peace or goodwill.

 

[Loren Booda]

It's obvious that the "reverend" has his own Achilles' heel -- ignorance. Potentially, he will not be the first to suffer from a knee-jerk reaction by terrorists.

Maybe someday he and the terrorists will realize that God was meant for all who seek.

That's Doctor Jones.

 

[turbo]

He was on the news tonight claiming that his book-burning was simply "pointing out" how hateful Islam is. He should have been looking in a mirror. It's pathetic that a little hole-in-the-wall "church" can gain so much attention with a nasty event, and help paint the US as Islam-hating morons in the minds of Muslims who might otherwise have been rather moderate.

Eerily reminiscent of the Westboro loons who picket soldiers' funerals with signs that say things line "thank god for dead soldiers" and other hate-speech.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Seems oddly dual to the Islamic community center a few blocks from the former Twin Towers -- just because they can doesn't mean they should. Admittedly this case seems more intentionally provocative rather than accidentally provocative.

 

[DaveC426913]

What troubles me is not him - after all his motive is quite easily understandable - publicity.

What troubles me is all the citizens who will sympathize with this motive because they believe it.

 

[DaveC426913]

Seems oddly dual to the Islamic community center a few blocks from the former Twin Towers -- just because they can doesn't mean they should.

Wait. What? You don't think they should put a Mosque near Ground Zero? Why?

The only rationale I have ever been able to fathom for this crazy thought is that people think that the Muslim world - as a unit - instigated 9/11.

Or am I misunderstanding?

 

[turbo]

Seems oddly dual to the Islamic community center a few blocks from the former Twin Towers -- just because they can doesn't mean they should. Admittedly this case seems more intentionally provocative rather than accidentally provocative.

The Imam has worked for that past two administrations performing outreach functions to the Muslim world, plus Sufis are perhaps the most mystical, contemplative branch of Islam. They have already been praying regularly in that old Burlington Coat Factory building for years. The "provocation" is entirely invented by people who have an agenda, and wish to make an issue of it. There are religious buildings all over lower Manhattan - suddenly, this project gets singled out? Let's get a bit of perspective.

It would never have been an issue, except that this is a mid-term election year, and the GOP has to whip idiots into a frenzy to cover up the fact that they have NO agenda apart from NO.

 

[lisab]

What troubles me is not him - after all his motive is quite easily understandable - publicity.

What troubles me is all the citizens who will sympathize with this motive because they believe it.

The news (CBS) reported he's lost 30 members of his flock over this. If those closest to him aren't willing to go along, hopefully there aren't many citizens who agree with him either. Even those who have a "Shoot first, ask questions later!" attitude should take notice of Gen. Petraeus' plea to not do this.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Or am I misunderstanding?

Yes.

Wait. What? You don't think they should put a Mosque near Ground Zero?

It doesn't bother me in the least that they want to build a community center there. It wouldn't bother me if they wanted to build a mosque there, either. But it has provoked a huge negative response toward Islam in the US, and that's the last thing it needs right now, at a time when it had been largely rebuilding bridges.

This goes all the more in a global climate that's rather hostile to Islam: the riots and anti-immigration movement in France, the Swiss ban on minarets, etc.

 

[OmCheeto]

I think I'll go home tonight and burn all my bible's in protest.

A shame. Some are nearly 100 years old.

And I've never burned a book in my life.

Something about watching F451 as a child taught me it was a sin.

Maybe I'll just burn the new ones.

 

[russ_watters]

He was on the news tonight claiming that his book-burning was simply "pointing out" how hateful Islam is.

What is ironic is that though he's an idiot and a bigot for doing it, he has a point: it is easy to provoke Islamic violence by doing something insulting to Islam. When was the last time you saw American Christians burning an effigy of an Islamic cleric for doing something similar?

 

[CRGreathouse]

What is ironic is that though he's an idiot and a bigot for doing it, he has a point: it is easy to provoke Islamic violence by doing something insulting to Islam. When was the last time you saw American Christians burning an effigy of an Islamic cleric for doing something similar?

Burning in effigy wouldn't really bother me. Death threats and attempted murder, those are different.

 

[drankin]

This is such crap. I'm going to buy a copy of the Quran and get my old bible and burn them together and post it on youtube.

 

[Char. Limit]

Burning in effigy wouldn't really bother me. Death threats and attempted murder, those are different.

Yes, death threats... it's not http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/91269/ , right?

 

[DaveC426913]

But it has provoked a huge negative response toward Islam in the US,

No it hasn't.

That hateful (and misguided) attitude was there prior to this. This has simply served as a (completely fallacious) lightning rod for misguided anger.

You don't encourage that kind of thing by ceding to ridiculous demands; you address the anger and direct it where it belongs (at the terrorists, not at Islam).

 

[OmCheeto]

This is such crap. I'm going to buy a copy of the Quran and get my old bible and burn them together and post it on youtube.

Well, if it's going on youtube, you might as well go all out:

Put little genitalia on them. Make them both male, and have them doing some kind of kinky clockwork orange weird sex scene. Have the parents(bookbinders?) come in and catch them, then do a burning on the cross/mecca rock scene. Little dangly leg things would make them look like sponge bob square pants. And have people throw rocks. Rocks are always cool.

You can flash ghostly images of Ingrid Bergman, et al, across the faces of both books as they burn.

Then change them to ghastly smiles of satisfaction like the lady in F451 as she took control of the situation, and resigned herself to the nirvana of dying with her loved ones...

You'd win an Oscar for sure.

 

[drankin]

Well, if it's going on youtube, you might as well go all out:

Put little genitalia on them. Make them both male, and have them doing some kind of kinky clockwork orange weird sex scene. Have the parents(bookbinders?) come in and catch them, then do a burning on the cross/mecca rock scene. Little dangly leg things would make them look like sponge bob square pants. And have people throw rocks. Rocks are always cool.

You can flash ghostly images of Ingrid Bergman, et al, across the faces of both books as they burn.

Then change them to ghastly smiles of satisfaction like the lady in F451 as she took control of the situation, and resigned herself to the nirvana of dying with her loved ones...

You'd win an Oscar for sure.

LOL, I can't compete with your creative genius.

I was just thinking of shooting the books a few times with incendiary rounds from my SKS while they are in front of a pan of gasoline... asking for my own personal fatwa.

 

[russ_watters]

Yes, death threats... it's not http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/91269/ , right?

Do you consider isolated incidents of lone wackos to be on the same level as a group of hundreds calling for violence in this case? Or the hundreds (thousands?) of photocopy identical Muslim suicide bombers compared to the dozens (maybe) of random, different Christian wackos who've done similar things? I don't.

Every religion has at least a few wackos. Islam has a lot.

 

[apeiron]

Or the hundreds (thousands?) of photocopy identical Muslim suicide bombers compared to the dozens (maybe) of random, different Christian wackos who've done similar things? I don't.

What you are describing is a product of asymmetric warfare, not "your religion is nuttier than mine".

If the other side had drones and B1s, would there be any need for hyped-up suicide bombers? If it had suited the world powers to let muslim nations develop their own modern cultural identity rather than prop up regional strongmen, would we need a "war on terror" at all?

It is not about religion, but national games of dominance and submission. Why would you pretend otherwise?

 

[CRGreathouse]

No it hasn't.

We differ on the facts, then.

 

[Galteeth]

I think the real story is here is how controversy addicted and childish the media has become. Any yahoo can make a press release saying he's going to burn something and you've got the friggin' leading US general making a commentary on it.

 

[rootX]

Do you consider isolated incidents of lone wackos to be on the same level as a group of hundreds calling for violence in this case? Or the hundreds (thousands?) of photocopy identical Muslim suicide bombers compared to the dozens (maybe) of random, different Christian wackos who've done similar things? I don't.

Every religion has at least a few wackos. Islam has a lot.

You do not see lot of Christian wackos at present because Christian communities are not in any major conflict at present whereas Islamic communities are. You opinions (in this and in post # 12) are coming out of ignorance at best if not against the PF regulation where you are blaming religion without any substantiate claim.

 

[OmCheeto]

LOL, I can't compete with your creative genius.

I was just thinking of shooting the books a few times with incendiary rounds from my SKS while they are in front of a pan of gasoline... asking for my own personal fatwa.

Bah! You've got to have lots of symbolism, appropriate music, and tear jerker stuff. Your video sounds like a thousand other videos I've seen.

Of course you have to do research. The wiki entry on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning" is a fun read.

Just replace the little kids around the cross in the cranberrie zombie song with the hebrew & christian bibles, and the koran. Put little arms on them so they can all hold hands. It's so adorable when they do that as they are about to be crucified. Slowly spin the platform to show each book, as you shoot them with your incendiary rounds, bursting the gasoline drenched books into flames. And be sure the last one is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning#Harry_Potter_books_.28in_various_American_cities.29". That'll have people crying, and rioting in the streets.

 

[drankin]

You do not see lot of Christian wackos because Christian communities are not in any major conflict at present whereas Islamic communities are.

Hmmm, I see a pattern here...

 

[drankin]

Bah! You've got to have lots of symbolism, appropriate music, and tear jerker stuff. Your video sounds like a thousand other videos I've seen.

Of course you have to do research. The wiki entry on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning" is a fun read.

Just replace the little kids around the cross in the cranberrie zombie song with the hebrew & christian bibles, and the koran. Put little arms on them so they can all hold hands. It's so adorable when they do that as they are about to be crucified. Slowly spin the platform to show each book, as you shoot them with your incendiary rounds, bursting the gasoline drenched books into flames. And be sure the last one is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning#Harry_Potter_books_.28in_various_American_cities.29". That'll have people crying, and rioting in the streets.

Um, I'm just going to shoot a bible and a quran around some gasoline and put it on youtube. So what if it's not original... this is my film buddy! Aint no one going to shoot up a quran like I can.

 

[rootX]

This is such crap. I'm going to buy a copy of the Quran and get my old bible and burn them together and post it on youtube.

I have met both Islamic as well Christian people. What you are saying/OP wacko is doing does not represent either.

 

[Char. Limit]

Hmmm, I see a pattern here...

The Islamic communities are not in conflict with us because they're just all fundamentally evil (hint: they aren't). We are in conflict with them because they are sitting atop a very valuable resource. You think we'd care about stability in the Middle East if it weren't for all the oil there?

Just look at Darfur. Just as bad stuff, but we aren't taking over Sudan, are we?

When you mess with other peoples' business, expect that they won't like it.

 

[russ_watters]

What you are describing is a product of asymmetric warfare, not "your religion is nuttier than mine".

No, it isn't. It is a product of one religious group wanting to kill another. They are not fighting a real war, just a terror war. They are not soldiers, just civilians filled with hate, attacking people who are not at war with them. Bin Laden is not a general, he's a not-so-random civilian religious wacko with money and the ability to gather followers who subscribe to his hateful rhetoric. He's David Koresh - if David Koresh had been able to pull thousands of followers from dozens of different countries, bound only by their religious fanaticism.

People use "asymetric warfare" as a justification for these crimes, but even if it is real (the only times I have heard of it is in the context of terrorism) it is not morally/legally acceptable. But tell me, what does "asymetric warfare" have to do with killing cartoonists? If the term existed in the military, they'd use it to describe things like IEDs and with a legitimate war going where focusing their efforts on Afghanistan could produce real positive results for them, why don't they focus their efforts there? Why do cartoonists need to die? Or from the other side of the coin, why aren't the French and Canadians killing cartoonists too?

If it is "asymetric warfare", what group, exactly is this war against? There are no countries currently waging wars against the US, only groups of people from many different countries all with a single connection with each other: religious hatred.

It is not about religion, but national games of dominance and submission. Why would you pretend otherwise?

If it isn't about religion, why do they use their religion as the justification for these crimes? Why are members of different countries who are not themselves at war with anyone chosing to fight a cause that has explicitly stated religious goals? If it is not about religion, why does a book burning prompt a violent reaction?

Your position is nonsense.

 

[russ_watters]

You do not see lot of Christian wackos at present because Christian communities are not in any major conflict at present whereas Islamic communities are. You opinions (in this and in post # 12) are coming out of ignorance at best if not against the PF regulation where you are blaming religion without any substantiate claim.

Your second sentence contradicts your first. Your second sentence says the effect I am seeing doesn't exist while your first offers a (nonsensical) explanation for why it exists.

It is despicable that people have become so desensitized to the violence that they can so easily dismiss it. It isn't normal. It shouldn't be dismissed as being normal.

 

[apeiron]

No, it isn't. It is a product of one religious group wanting to kill another.

Simple minded nonsense. It is a conflict like any other, about power, resources, money, dominance, identity. And religious fanaticism is a tool, not the reason.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,369448,00.html

 

[OmCheeto]

The Islamic communities are not in conflict with us because they're just all fundamentally evil (hint: they aren't). We are in conflict with them because they are sitting atop a very valuable resource. You think we'd care about stability in the Middle East if it weren't for all the oil there?

Just look at Darfur. Just as bad stuff, but we aren't taking over Sudan, are we?

When you mess with other peoples' business, expect that they won't like it.

Stop muddying the argument with facts. We want pure unadulterated opinion only. How else could we argue endlessly over something that, symbolically, is the childish equivalent of giving Islam the middle finger.

 

[rootX]

Your second sentence contradicts your first. Your second sentence says the effect I am seeing doesn't exist while your first offers a (nonsensical) explanation for why it exists.

They are not contradicting each other because any community (community of whites/blacks/some religion) would produce violence if it is in a conflict but that would not mean that some religion or that community is the cause of the violence.

It is despicable that people have become so desensitized to the violence that they can so easily dismiss it.

No, I am not dismissing violence but I am dismissing the Islam as one of the cause of this violence. I only made this claim:

I have met both Islamic as well Christian people. What you are saying/OP wacko is doing does not represent either.

If you believe Islam is an aggressive religion and causing terrorism, your opinion is ignorant and I would ask how much knowledge of this religion you have to make those allegations?

It isn't normal. It shouldn't be dismissed as being normal.

ad-hominem and irrelevant

 

[cronxeh]

What do you need to get an honorary doctorate in theology from unaccredited school? Would a note from god do?

 

[nismaratwork]

What do you need to get an honorary doctorate in theology from unaccredited school? Would a note from god do?

Must be running short on burning bushes and halos. :rofl:

Kidding aside, clearly this guy, with his whole what... 50 or so followers?... are just angry pricks. They don't care about warnings from our military, or from others, they just want to burn some books. They have the right to do it, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to be one of them. If a cartoon of Muhammad gets you killed in the street, I doubt these people are going to have much of a shelf-life.

People can believe what they want, but if you piss off the wrong Christian nut-job by say, being a doctor who performs abortions, you might get shot! Burn Qurans, and... you might get shot. The real difference is that given current USA and Muslin-Nation relations right now, burning these books is probably going to get OTHERS killed.

rootX: Um, we're in conflict with a lot of people who burn our leaders and flags and other goodies in effigy, right? I don't see us shooting people from footage of such rallies. Jesus, Buddha, Moses (lol, I love that one), that Mormon founder Smith-twit, and more are regularly depicted and widely mocked on South Park, and no one seems to be lobbing grenades through their office windows. They tried to put Muhammad on board, and the network censored it for fear of retaliation, such as with Theo Van Gogh. Get real root, there are times in history when each of the above religions would kill someone for the same mockers, but those times have passed for the most part. Islam is a little younger (Mormons aside), and frankly, is about where Christianity and Judaism were at the same time: legalistic, trying for conquest, and kinda violent. It seems to be the norm for religions that get big enough, not the exception, but right now it's Islam that's doing the heavy lifting in the "holy war" arena. I'm sure that someday it won't be, and another group will step up to the plate, but for now your argument is absurd.