Fredrik said:
Eugene, I agree that there's nothing logically inconsistent about your interpretation of the principle of relativity, but don't you see how different it is from standard SR? Just about every calculation in SR is based on the axiom that physical events are (coordinate independent) points in Minkowski space.
Consider e.g. the method we use to prove that two laboratories that don't have the same velocity will measure different lengths of an object that's co-moving with one of the laboratories. The co-moving laboratory measures the proper distance between the endpoints at two events that are assigned the same time coordinate by the coordinate system that's associated with its motion. The other laboratory also measures a proper distance, but between two different events. To understand what the result will be, the first thing we have to do is to figure out which two events that is. We can e.g. draw a spacetime diagram that shows all the relevant events mapped to \mathbb R^2 by the coordinate system associated with the motion of the co-moving laboratory. The world lines are vertical in this diagram, and we can prove that events that the other laboratory considers simultaneous are on a line with slope v, and from that we can figure out which two events the other laboratory will consider, and what the result will be.
Fredrik,
I am fully aware that my approach is different from standard SR. It suggests a different solution for the length contraction problem, which does not involve construction of space-time diagrams.
Let me choose two particles on the opposite ends of the stick and denote their position operators (or their position dynamical variables in the classical case) in the frame at rest by x_1 and x_2. I use 1-dimensional case for simplicity. Then the length of the stick in the rest frame is L = |x_1-x_2|. Then I switch to the moving frame description. I denote the boost operator by K_x, and obtain the length of the stick in the moving frame by usual quantum-mechanical formula
L' = e^{-iK_x \theta} L e^{iK_x \theta}......(1)
If interactions between atoms in the stick are weak, then this result will not be different from the usual SR length contraction formula
L' = L/\cosh \theta..........(2)
However, for very strong interactions, results (1) and (2) will be different.
Fredrik said:
When we use your way of looking at things, that object may not even exist to the second laboratory. That may not be logically inconsistent, or even in contradiction with every possible interpretation of the principle of relativity, but it certainly isn't special relativity.
Yes, this is not the standard special relativity. For example, the operator K_x in (1) may contain interaction terms that lead to decays of particles 1 and 2. Then, in the moving frame even the particle content of the stick can be altered. So, strictly speaking, the notion of the "length of the stick" will be altered as well.
DaleSpam said:
I would like to reiterate my suggestion that this is inappropriate for this forum. We have given meopemuk more than enough time to say something remotely related to standard SR, which he has not. The present discussion does not belong here. Particularly the very non-mainstream interpretation of the first postulate.
Even if you don't buy my arguments, I think in our discussion we touch some basic and interesting issues regarding the logical structure of special relativity. A critical discussion of SR postulates could be benefitial in learning this theory by everyone, IMHO.
On the other hand, I understand that I over-used your hospitality on this forum. So, if you decided to lock this thread, I will not be offended.
Eugene.