Gibbs and Helmholtz energies of a superconductor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Gibbs and Helmholtz energies of an ideal superconductor, particularly focusing on their behavior at the transition point between the superconducting and normal states. Participants explore the implications of using these thermodynamic potentials to describe energy differences and continuity across the transition temperature.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the Gibbs energy and Helmholtz energy formulations for an ideal superconductor and discusses the continuity of Gibbs energy at the transition point.
  • Another participant questions the applicability of Helmholtz energy in this context, suggesting that the experimental setup must be considered, particularly regarding the magnetization in the normal and superconducting states.
  • A different participant clarifies that the magnetization is small in the normal state but becomes significant in the superconducting state, where it is equal to the applied magnetic field.
  • One participant emphasizes the usefulness of Gibbs potential due to the constancy of the magnetic field during the transition, unlike magnetization.
  • There is a debate on whether the Helmholtz energy should also be continuous at the transition temperature, with one participant asserting that it should be, while another argues that it may not be due to the differences in terms involving magnetization and magnetic field.
  • A later reply acknowledges that at the transition temperature, the magnetic field is zero, suggesting that both energies are continuous at that point.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the continuity of Helmholtz energy compared to Gibbs energy at the transition temperature. While some suggest both are continuous, others argue that the presence of magnetization leads to a discontinuity in Helmholtz energy. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these differences.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the dependence on assumptions regarding magnetization and the specific conditions under which the Gibbs and Helmholtz energies are evaluated. The discussion highlights the complexities involved in transitioning between states and the role of external magnetic fields.

Botttom
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Hello,
I consider an ideal superconductor with the gibbs-energy $$ d G=-SdT + VdP - \mu_0 M V dH$$
and helmholtz energy $$ dF = -SdT -P dV + \mu_0 V H dM$$
Assuming, that in the normal state the magnetization is too small, so that G_n(H) = G_n(H=0) and at the transition point H_c the superconducting phase energy equals to the normal state G_s(H_c) = G_n (H_c) I get a continuous gibbs energy function with the superconducting-normal- states energy differency $$G_n (T)-G_s(T) =\frac{1}{2} H^2_c(T) V$$, when H_c(T)=H_c(0)(1-(\frac{T}{T_c})^2).

Why one cannot use the helmholtz energy for the same calculation of the energy differences and would the function of the helmholtz energy would be continuous as well?

Thanks
 
I suppose you could use Helmholtz energy, too, but which experimental setup would correspond to this situation? You assumed that the magnetisation in the normal state is very small, so if you want to keep M constant, it would have to be so in the superconducting phase, too. So basically you want to discuss the field free case.
 
No, i just assume that the magnetization is small enough in the normal state, because the sample is not diamagnetic in normal state. The diamagnetism is only seen in the superconducting state with $$M=H,$$ and hence can not be assumed to be small enough to be neglected
 
I understand this. But the Gibbs potential is so useful in this case because H is not changing on the transition, in contrast to M.
 
But the helmholtz energy should still be continuous at T_c like the gibbs energy, right?
 
I don't think so. The two differ by a term MH. But below Tc, M=H, while below M=0. So if one is continuous, the other one jumps by ##H^2##.
 
Just realsed that at Tc H=0, so both are continuous.
 
Ok, thanks
 

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