Gravitationally bound and Hubble time

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around estimating the travel time of a galaxy within the Coma cluster, comparing this time to the Hubble time, and exploring implications regarding the gravitational binding of galaxies in the cluster.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the estimated travel time of a galaxy across the cluster and its relation to the Hubble time. Questions arise about the implications of different timescales on gravitational binding, with some participants suggesting the use of the virial theorem and the Faber–Jackson relation for further analysis.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various interpretations being explored regarding the relationship between the timescale of galaxy motion and gravitational binding. Some participants express uncertainty about the implications of their findings, while others suggest that the initial timescale estimation may suffice for understanding gravitational binding.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working with assumptions about the galaxy's motion and the parameters provided, including the radial velocity dispersion and the Hubble time. There is a noted lack of consensus on how these factors directly relate to gravitational binding.

BearY
Messages
53
Reaction score
8

Homework Statement


Estimate how long a galaxy in the Coma cluster would take to travel from one side of the cluster to the other. Assume that the galaxy moves with a constant speed equal to the cluster’s radial velocity dispersion. How does this compare with the Hubble time, t H ? What can you conclude about whether the galaxies in the Coma cluster are gravitationally bound?

Carroll, Bradley W.; Ostlie, Dale A.. Introduction to Modern Astrophysics, An: Pearson New International Edition (Page 1184)

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


The first 2 questions are simple, with values(from some very not reliable encyclopedia)
diameter is 6 mpc
radial dispersion velocity is 1000km/h
hubble time = 13.8 billion years
I reached a conclusion of the time needed is about 0.4 Hubble time.

But I have no clue how does it imply anything about gravitational bound.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
How does the motion of a galaxy look like if the timescale is much smaller than the Hubble time?
How does it look like if it is much larger?
In which case do you get something that looks as expected for a gravitationally bound object?
 
mfb said:
How does the motion of a galaxy look like if the timescale is much smaller than the Hubble time?
How does it look like if it is much larger?
In which case do you get something that looks as expected for a gravitationally bound object?
If the radial dispersion velocity is too large then the system is probably no gravitational bounded, because then the kinetic energy of most of the galaxies in the cluster would be enough to escape?
If it is very slow too slow I can't think of anything else except that it can be bounded?
Yesterday I had an idea about if it has anything to do with the virial theorem. We can assume the cluster is bounded and estimate the mass enclosed using Faber–Jackson relation, then with mass enclosed we can estimate the average Ek and average Ep, and see if it violate the virial theorem by too much?
But to be honest I don't know how does it relate to Hubble time and still pretty clueless in general.
 
Now you are overthinking this. The timescale you found is all you need.

As an example, for Earth the timescale is 1 year. It has been done billions of orbits. It is clearly gravitationally bound.
If you take two galaxy clusters far away you get a timescale of hundreds of billions of years: They cannot orbit each other. There was not even enough time in the universe for that.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K